I have the dreaded leaky sump problem where the steel sump pan has rusted sufficiently to become porous and is bleeding oil through it.
On looking to buy a replacement there seem to be versions listed with 8mm and 10mm bolt holes and both are listed against the same part number! So does it matter?

This is on a 1.4, 8 valve engine.

Later: Perhaps I should clarify. I removed one sump bolt and it is 8mm. Obviously this will fit through a 10mm hole, and I think would secure with a flat washer. I am wondering if the 10mm hole sumps were a modification to avoid exerting lateral stress on the sump pressing and aid alignment tolerance onto all 14 bolts, whilst still using 8mm bolts?
(I know, they are technically screws!)

Why not remove one bolt and measure its diameter?

Detroitdiesel said:

Why not remove one bolt and measure its diameter?

Click to expand...

Hey DD, He did it already! and I like His theory about releasing lateral stress with bigger holes...

And yes, BTW they are screws and not bolts ;-)

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

So the question is - do all of the sumps for the 8v engine attach with 8mm bolts (screws) so that the sumps with 10mm bolt holes are simply an upgrade to allow a better fit? Or do I need to search specifically for one with 8mm bolt holes?

Honestly, I have no clue, but I'd say if they have the same part #, either of them should be ok. But if you go for the "10mm" sump, use larger flat washers, install ALL screws and tight them evenly to avoid stress on the seal or the sump itself...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Im a fan of EuroCarParts...Try thier website..

nikrox said:

Im a fan of EuroCarParts...Try thier website..

Click to expand...

Yes I had looked at their offerings. They list it "for 8mm bolts" but not clear if the holes are the larger 10mm size so it doesn't really solve my question. Plus theirs is over twice the price of other online options I have looked at!

I thought £50 was resonable tbh..but if its cheaper elsewhere..

Try Shop4parts. They do one for our 1.2 8v Panda - may well be the same part? - at a very reasonable price and I've found their parts to be good quality in the past:

https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=...9&term=Fiat_Panda_III_(09_to_12)_1.2_8v_Sumps

This is where we I'll be buying a new sump for my boy's 2012 Punto. Give them a ring, there's a very helpful chap there called Mike (or Mick?) he will know about the hole size thing. Remember you can claim a small extra discount (10% I think) if you unlock the forum discount code by making a small donation and shipping was free over £25 (last time I ordered).

Have you tried Shop4parts. If I'm right this one should work on yours (don't forget the discount if you're a paid up member)

Link

Regarding holes for new pan - I think that holes are size 10 for bolts and 4 holes at the ends (2 on puley side and 2 on gerbox side) are size 8 and holds there with nuts instead of bolts...?

Thanks DG and Auld Jock (!) for the Shop4Parts suggestions. Their prices are much better. They don't say whether these have 8 or10mm holes for the sump bolts but the part number is the same for the 1.2 and 1.4 8valve engines.


The sump bolts on my car are all definately only 8mm, not just the two at the end of the sump. So I presumed that there were some cars with 10mm bolts. But it may be as I sugested earlier that the main holes are 10mm to allow for slight dimensional mismatches between the 14 bolt holes. The two smaller holes near the crank pully end would then be to provide for accurate location.

Just thought I'd mention that a number of years ago I bought the cheapest pattern made sump I could find, from a local factor, for our '99 Panda Parade. It was a bit of a disaster as it didn't really fit the shape of the bottom of the block properly. The first time I fitted it I had to remove it again as oil was leaking all around the front of the engine. Cleaned it all off, including the annoying task of getting all the sealant off, and dry fitted it which was when I picked up on the poor fitting bits. Marked where they were and applied an extra thick bead of sealant to these bits which sorted it. It left me feeling a bit nervous though as I don't like slaistering great gobs of sealant around in case some of it detaches and blocks up the pickup filter etc.

Having seen the quality of parts I've received from S4p I would be very surprised if one of their offerings gave a problem like this.

ddclutch said:

So the question is - do all of the sumps for the 8v engine attach with 8mm bolts (screws) so that the sumps with 10mm bolt holes are simply an upgrade to allow a better fit? Or do I need to search specifically for one with 8mm bolt holes?

Click to expand...

Search on here is great.

Huge amount of info on the mk2 punto..

Quite possibly the same part.. as the same M8/M10 discissions occurred.

I did my 2002 8v and it was a PIA..

thankfully lots more info..and experience on here now.

Charlie

varesecrazy said:

Huge amount of info on the mk2 punto..
Quite possibly the same part.. as the same M8/M10 discissions occurred.

Charlie

Click to expand...

Well I have searched and there is as you say a lot of discussion there but it all seems to be about the relationship between bolt head sizes (10mm, 13mm) and the bolt thread sizes.
I can find nothing that clarifies if the 8mm sized bolts, measured across the threads, will work with the sumps with 10mm hole sizes.

ddclutch said:

Well I have searched and there is as you say a lot of discussion there but it all seems to be about the relationship between bolt head sizes (10mm, 13mm) and the bolt thread sizes.
I can find nothing that clarifies if the 8mm sized bolts, measured across the threads, will work with the sumps with 10mm hole sizes.

Click to expand...

Just for clarification

M8= 13 mm head
M10=17 mm head

The 2 option sizes could fit the same sump pan.. on the mk2

As the 2 option sizes are supposed to fit the GP.

varesecrazy said:

Just for clarification

M8= 13 mm head
M10=17 mm head

The 2 option sizes could fit the same sump pan.. on the mk2

As the 2 option sizes are supposed to fit the GP.

Click to expand...

More precisely, those (hexagonal )head values are for what spanner/socket they require. They are true for low/mid strength screws and nuts, high-grade bolts will have larger heads (M8=15mm, M10=19mm.

To find what spanner you need: (3 x (thread diameter /2)) +1 rounded if necessary to the next "standard" size.
i.e: M6=(3x3)+1=10, M8= (3x4)+1=13, M10= (3x5)+1=16 (17) M12=(3x6)+1=19 etc.

Math can OC be reversed to find the thread size by measuring the head ;-)


BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

ddclutch said:

I have the dreaded leaky sump problem where the steel sump pan has rusted sufficiently to become porous and is bleeding oil through it.
On looking to buy a replacement there seem to be versions listed with 8mm and 10mm bolt holes and both are listed against the same part number! So does it matter?

This is on a 1.4, 8 valve engine.

Later: Perhaps I should clarify. I removed one sump bolt and it is 8mm. Obviously this will fit through a 10mm hole, and I think would secure with a flat washer. I am wondering if the 10mm hole sumps were a modification to avoid exerting lateral stress on the sump pressing and aid alignment tolerance onto all 14 bolts, whilst still using 8mm bolts?
(I know, they are technically screws!)

Click to expand...

Bolts at the corners are 8mm, along the sides of the sump are 10mm. This may account for some confusion. This is for the 1.2 8v!

Thanks Bernievarian, but I have no difficulty with bolt and spanner sizes! That was never any part of my question. But someone else might find it useful.


My question was about the size of the bolt holes in the sump, not the size of the bolts, or the spanners/ sockets to fit them.
Sumps are being marketted, using the same OEM part numbers, but some quoting "10mm holes" and some as "8mm holes". I was trying to get some reliable information about why there appear to be two versions of the sump and if it matters.

@ DDclutch, my intention was to shed some light on the nuts and bolts stuff for the nubies that might find themselves here ...

I had a look in ePer about the sump(s) and found # reference numbers; what is your car built year? Or better what is its VIN?

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)