If it's not mistake (by hacks who make copies of the tools, including chinese), maybe it is emissions thing?
If you set the timing a bit different, engine will still run (with different performance in the particular RPM range), but resulting exhaust gases will be altered too? My knowledge ends here (someone with more experience, speak out).

"Same engine" has different (how different I don't know) versions/revisions.
Just look at MES program. For same engine car you have options: different computer version, different power, and sometimes there is "outside EU" or similar note (in the bracket). Now, rest is in the software (if it sees 0 or -2 deg.), so timing tools must match what the software expects to see. Educated guess (not confirmed).

As for "ticking" I have same sound, but only when cold start after resting for many hours, and only first 2-3 minutes.
I found russian video with exactly same sound, 20:42-20:45: [ame]https://youtu.be/ktI9gvrdh-c?t=1240[/ame]
But this is after full engine rebuild... SO, it's normal (I guess) for this family (new FIRE). Fiats were always somewhat noisy during cold start.
By the way, it's a Fiat Doblo (in the video), "same engine" as in Grande, but again different: for example valve clearance shims are thicker (as in older FIRE engines), if I understand russian he said "3,82" mm. Grande has 2-3 mm range. Thinner shims - why/what for?

Subject requires more investigation, including russian resources. https://yandex.com/

Hmmm, yes, maybe in some countries were different emissions limits (Euro4 vs 5)...and maybe some camshafts has different cut out (for 8.75 degrees tool...). With inproper timing there will be slightly different emission output (when intake valve opens sooner, it is also sooner closed, and the same for exhaust valves), but I think that 2 degrees does not affect overal emissions measurement output. And its still in ECU's tolerance because theres no error in ECU or engine light.
Very good video, I like to see these complete rebuilds Yes, he said 3.82mm

Random search in Russian: https://zinref.ru/avtomobili/Fiat/000_00_00_Fiat_albea_2005_remont_bez_problem/043.htm
They say that tools are used in factory plant at assembly line and that's the main purpose of any "special" tooling.
Later, you can (if engine is running properly) swap the timing belt traditional way (cylinder 1 at TDC + paint marks).
Tool numbers are the same...in this particular example (but that doesn't prove - for now - that other variations/versions of the engine don't exist out there).
Or, market is flooded with wrong tools (someone rounded the numbers, but not enough to trip the "Check Engine" light).

Another idea. Some sources (internet) claim, that there were 1,4 8V engines for early Grandes, but without VVT. Maybe THERE was a different timing.

PS
Suggested valve clearances are different! Bigger. Why? https://zinref.ru/avtomobili/Fiat/000_00_00_Fiat_albea_2005_remont_bez_problem/044.htm

Broken-english translation: https://translate.google.com/transl...00_Fiat_albea_2005_remont_bez_problem/000.htm - cool guide, full of detailed pictures. Worth saving.
There is only one conclusion: learn foreign languages. You will find more golden-nuggets like this.

Great finding ! ;-) Saved, will study it all

Meanwhile I asked my service to check their cam tool's angle and gave them proof that MES is showing -2 degrees expected...

GrandePunto PL said:

Another idea. Some sources (internet) claim, that there were 1,4 8V engines for early Grandes, but without VVT. Maybe THERE was a different timing.

Click to expand...

I like that one very much, it would make sense ...

BR's, Bernie

OK, but 1 or 2 degrees is not that much really. Bolt hole clearances (crankshaft tool) will give a "play" exactly in that range (suddenly I can't post attachments to show this). Maybe that's the source of "error".

Next option: there is tolerance allowed, tools don't have to be precise. That's why you have software options like "phonic wheel learn" (now it makes sense, otherwise - if everything is precise - it's useless really, it was never needed in older FIRE engines, you swap the TDC sensor and that's it, there was nothing to "learn").

I know what you are talking about regarding hole clearances - there must be some gap for inserting screws throug fix tool....yes...you are right
After timing belt replacement I did reset of all learned parameters in ECU and did also new Phonic wheel learn procedure (3 times rev up to 5000rpm and turn off key). After thta I didn't noticed any change in engine's behavior, but I was happy that it was done from my side....for better sleeping

Just to compare. My engine is shaking just like yours at idle. But cam position is almost "spot on".
Only -0,13 degree (sometimes is will skip to -1,19 when RPMs are dropping from higher values). Belt is 5 years old.
External, temporary link: https://ibb.co/1b83jgV.

So 2 degrees out is probably something mechanically "wrong" (maybe timing tools or careless belt swap procedure).

Still can't upload pictures (error: upload of file failed).

I red somewhere that VVT solenoid is periodicaly opening also at idle , to "clean" advance chambers and channels with new oil....maybe thats why the value is jumping from time to time

Try to move...a phonic wheel: https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pu...-engine-cam-belt-replacement-2.html?p=4494251
There should be enough "play" (bolts) to make a noticeable change (in MES readings).

Thank you very much for info!

GrandePunto PL said:

Still can't upload pictures (error: upload of file failed).

Click to expand...

Probably too big ..

I thought about it...and I think that's why phonic wheel re-learn procedure is available in MES, just to eliminate this possible "little movement"... I did this procedure (rev up engine above 5000rpm three times), but nothing changed in MES readings, or engine behavior

No, idea was to move the wheel (undo 3 bolts, with 13 mm socket). Check if MES can see it.
I'm not trying it myself, because it's raining here (so I have excuse).

Without reset or learning (when nothing is changed physically, MES will show same numbers, there's nothing to "learn").

Hi GP-PL,

I'm surprised how much the pulley (and its phonic wheel) plays on the shaft ! That kind of assembly should be aligned with the key, NOT the bolts ...
Was this video taken from your car ?

Cheers, Bernie

But when I give at least one of three bolts back, it will "center" pulley to correct position....not?

Rado77 said:

But when I give at least one of three bolts back, it will "center" pulley to correct position....not?

Click to expand...

That depends of the bolt head/seat shape: self-centering if conical (like a wheel bolt), 'adjustable' if flat and hole slightly oversized...