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Old 10-05-2019   #16
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

If all 3 are doing the same thing then in all honesty it seems like a inconclusive test, I would swap it but then again I'd be doing it myself and not paying garage prices
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Old 10-05-2019   #17
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Also maybe someone on the forum has done a leak test on their servo,
I actually haven't,
So anyone, let us know your results....
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Old 10-05-2019   #18
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Ugh

2:25am now

I'm off
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Old 10-05-2019   #19
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Quote Originally Posted by llamallama View Post
This is a huge longshot but here goes,

You mentioned earlier that the clutch pedal gets or got to hard to press, at this point, did you try opening the slave bleeder to see if the pedal would then drop to the floor?

I actually don't have a manual Punto but if the clutch is using the fluid from the brake master cylinder, maybe there is a blockage or air in the line,

Also if all three of your Punto's servos have the same traits as one another, you might be able to rule them out, since your wife's Punto is going well,

Have you tried pumping the the brake pedal before you turn the car on? Does it get hard to press after 3 or 4 goes?

Then maybe bleed brakes all round, make sure no air or blockage in each line,

Or if the car is driveable and the clutch and gear changing are working well, the abs pump might be the problem, have you tried unplugging the abs module and the battery for a while? Try to do a kinda soft reset,

Like I said, bit of a longshot

Firstly - THANKS for your thoughts. All shared knowledge and experience at this point is awesome !

I said brake pedal (as expected) got hard [Not clutch pedal] when vacuum pipe was disconnected in order to test. All i meant was - unfortunately at this point brakes were so hard pedal-wise; it was impossible to pump them at tickover and get the car to stall. Which it was doing with servo connected.

***I've just been out to car and pumped pedal a few times with car off. And yes - brake pedal did get rock-hard after those few pumps.

Soft-reset sounds a good idea. I'll disconnect ABS module and battery and leave off Sat night. Might be interesting for sure !

Thanks again buddy.

***Where in the World are you ???
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Old 10-05-2019   #20
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Quote Originally Posted by Eklipze3k View Post
If all 3 are doing the same thing then in all honesty it seems like a inconclusive test, I would swap it but then again I'd be doing it myself and not paying garage prices
My son is 17 and on minimum wage (6.15) an hour.

As much as i don't want him to think cars run for free - i also don't want him to chuck at a seriously un-diagnosed problem if we can at least get some sort of direction to head in.

Garage have been awesome so far helping him out. But they are flummoxed and so am i. May well have to start 'chucking bits on' soon though......

So its either going to have to be servo (Which to me is 'unlikely' seeing as all 3 give same results from smoke test), throttle body: Not sure why it might be this - and why it would effect the car when the brake is pressed at tickover ?, or ABS pump. Which would be my initial first try right now......


Cheers my friend.
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Old 10-05-2019   #21
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Ah yeah, sorry bit on the tired side here,
Ok, that's good the brake pedal gets hard to press when car is off,
Also try that again, but this time keep your foot on the pedal, not pressing hard just resting on it, then turn the car on but don't start up, just switch to accessories, see if the pedal goes soft,

Plus usually the abs light will show up on dash if it's not working properly, but then again, maybe not,

I'm in Australia, just outside the capital,

3:05am

Good night Good morning Good afternoon

Talk about in a few hours
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Old 10-05-2019   #22
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Quote Originally Posted by llamallama View Post
Ah yeah, sorry bit on the tired side here,
Ok, that's good the brake pedal gets hard to press when car is off,
Also try that again, but this time keep your foot on the pedal, not pressing hard just resting on it, then turn the car on but don't start up, just switch to accessories, see if the pedal goes soft,

Plus usually the abs light will show up on dash if it's not working properly, but then again, maybe not,

I'm in Australia, just outside the capital,

3:05am

Good night Good morning Good afternoon

Talk about in a few hours
Well Evening nearly. And Good Morning to you !

Ok, so: Car off - pump pedal a few times (Goes rock hard). Then turn key to accessories (Stays hard), turn key further to start the car - and with foot still on the pedal - it starts to depress down. All sounds normal to me - yes ?

Just to be clear too. Car has no fault codes., no dash lights showing and no other faults. Just this stalling issue that seems worse when hot (From my limited experience of it / what my son / the garage have told me). And when hot it always stalls when the brakes are pressed / pumped a few times.




Argh cool being in Aus. A native ? I asked really because my wife and i are really into our Travel the last few years and anything other than where i live [Lowestoft in England....The UK's most Easterly Town] is really interesting to me.

We're off to Dubai on Tuesday, then Tokyo in Sept; and Las Vegas - then onto New York for Christmas. So a really exciting year for us and 'exploring' the Globe a little.

Never done Aus yet though. Guessing from the vastness of the Country and the huge choices of cities, suburbs and wilderness; we'd need to pool all our Holidays into one and do a 3 week trip or something. So would be the one holiday for the year for sure. I do have a friend out there i could likely stay with too. Which would be pretty cool.

Have a great weekend yourself.
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Old 11-05-2019   #23
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

My head still says Brake Servo.

Trouble is now - i bought a second-hand unit which was supposedly tested. warranted etc...BUT if we fit that and the stalling when braking still happens - we can't honestly / 100% rule out that it could be the newly fitted unit.

So; what i'm going to do i think is get a rebuild kit for the servo we now have sitting here. Rebuild and paint that and re-fit.

Either it will cure the issue - or at the very least i can 99.9% rule out the servo being the issue if the problem is still there.


So....where do i get a rebuild kit from ???
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #24
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Now it's about time to get seriously on that one...

Hook MES on the car and watch the expected fuel delivery curve and the inlet manifold air pressure. They will tell where the stall comes from.

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #25
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Quote Originally Posted by Bernievarian View Post
Now it's about time to get seriously on that one...

Hook MES on the car and watch the expected fuel delivery curve and the inlet manifold air pressure. They will tell where the stall comes from.

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)
Hi Bernie,

I asked about this before.


Is MES some Fiat only diagnostic equipment ?

Cheers Syer.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #26
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #27
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

If you're interested in getting it, I'd recommend going through Gendan. They're a UK company who will supply not only the software but also the appropriate cables, as well as great after sales support.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #28
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Quote Originally Posted by sevenfourate View Post
Hi Bernie,

I asked about this before.


Is MES some Fiat only diagnostic equipment ?

Cheers Syer.
Hi Shuv, it's actually a Fiat/Alfa/Mitsubishi? diagnostic tool, if you order it go ahead and buy also the adapters kit, you'll need the yellow one (#3) to access other modules than the ECU ...
MES will allow you to monitor almost everything that's on your car and you will also be able to send commands to every actuator.

That is a MUST have for any Fiat enthusiast !!

BRs, Bernie

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Last edited by Bernievarian; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:28.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #29
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Re: The incurable Punto 'stalling issue'........

Just to update this for anyone else in the future.

Car went into Desira Fiat Gt Yarmouth for fault Diagnosis Thursday. Cost was quoted as 108 for an hour.....and they were pretty sure that would be long enough to diagnose the fault.

This was the email i received shortly after their Master Technician had road-tested and then looked into:

"Just to let you know we have got to the bottom of the problem with the vehicle.

The underlying issue was corrosion on the crankshaft sensor, we have removed it and cleaned it.

The problem now seems to be cured but as a result on removing you sensor we now have to program the phonic wheel back to the vehicle. This will take an additional half an hour bringing

total cost of repair to 164.00 inc vat.



I trust this will be okay for you



******So this goes back to the very first thing we tried all those weeks ago ie: New crankshaft sensor (And the only actual fault / code the car ever showed up at any stage ) - and seemingly NOT being fitted in an professional manner.

I'm an Engineer (Not Automotive) so have some idea about the way in which these things should be done to minimise potential issues. Whether the sensor area wasn't cleaned up, if where the flange bolts on to the engine was corroded and not cleaned up, if there was gunge inside that was never removed before fitting the new sensor etc i can't say.


What i can say is the car has been faultless and better than ever the last few days !!!!!


***Can anyone tell me / guess / understand why the corrosion / dirt in or around the crank sensor only manifested itself when warm - AND the brake was depressed !!!!!! And why no fault code pinged up ref the crank sensor. A strange one perhaps - but gladly sorted now.

Cheers guys.
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Last edited by sevenfourate; 2 Weeks Ago at 13:57.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #30
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Quote Originally Posted by sevenfourate View Post
Just to update this for anyone else in the future.

Car went into Desira Fiat Gt Yarmouth for fault Diagnosis Thursday. Cost was quoted as 108 for an hour.....and they were pretty sure that would be long enough to diagnose the fault.

This was the email i received shortly after their Master Technician had road-tested and then looked into:

"Just to let you know we have got to the bottom of the problem with the vehicle.

The underlying issue was corrosion on the crankshaft sensor, we have removed it and cleaned it.

The problem now seems to be cured but as a result on removing you sensor we now have to program the phonic wheel back to the vehicle. This will take an additional half an hour bringing

total cost of repair to 164.00 inc vat.



I trust this will be okay for you



******So this goes back to the very first thing we tried all those weeks ago ie: New crankshaft sensor (And the only actual fault / code the car ever showed up at any stage ) - and seemingly NOT being fitted in an professional manner.

I'm an Engineer (Not Automotive) so have some idea about the way in which these things should be done to minimise potential issues. Whether the sensor area wasn't cleaned up, if where the flange bolts on to the engine was corroded and not cleaned up, if there was gunge inside that was never removed before fitting the new sensor etc i can't say.


What i can say is the car has been faultless and better than ever the last few days !!!!!


***Can anyone tell me / guess / understand why the corrosion / dirt in or around the crank sensor only manifested itself when warm - AND the brake was depressed !!!!!! And why no fault code pinged up ref the crank sensor. A strange one perhaps - but gladly sorted now.

Cheers guys.
Hi ,

The Crank sensor fails in a way that it will fail to ' see' rotation of the crank.

It has little else seeing rpm.. so doesnt see any issue.

Good that the garage has done enough to get it running well..

The BRAKE comment.. smacks of poor wiring

Other FIATs have had brake switch issues causing random stuff..

Charlie
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