Looking for some help with a 2008 1.2 8v Grande Punto. Just rescued the car from going to a scrapyard for non starting issues.

So i turn the key, car turns over but doesn't want to start. checked for spark and getting that fine. if i turn ignition key on and off a few times to let pump run, the car will then start and runs for 2-3 seconds and then cuts out. doesn't seem to respond to throttle. try and start it again and just turns over. prime it 2 or 3 times and it will start and cut out again. Also starts after squirting some easy start into intake. I haven't tested actual fuel pressure yet, although the rail is pressurised.

the previous owner had a garage replace starter motor and battery. and subsequently and auto electrician who has apparently confirmed the loom is fine after repairing a connection between the ecu and fuse box. it still wouldnt start and he thought it was a accelerator pedal issue, so its had a new pedal fitted but still no joy. Owner gave up on it at this point.

I have found a few similar topics on here, but a few havent been updated with what the actual fix was. If anyone has any suggestions it would be appreciated.

chr1sd said:

I have found a few similar topics on here, but a few haven't been updated with what the actual fix was. )

Click to expand...

that's the main reproach we can have to (some) forumers, once their issue is fixed they forget the others ...

BTW, rail is pressurized doesn't imply the pressure is correct ... Seems you definitely have a fueling problem.

BRs, Bernie

Thanks. I will test fuel pressure today and try a different pump.

Are there any fault codes present?...

yes ive been having a look today. Went to scrap yard and bought a replacement engine harness to get rid of the butchered one the auto sparky left. got the car put back together and still doing the same.
read fault codes and was initially getting
P0220 Throttle/Pedal Position sensor/switch B Circuit.
P0340 Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Bank 1 or single sensor.

Reset the codes and tried starting again and same issue, starts and revs, then when revs fall back to 500rpm ish and dies.

after resetting codes, the only one that comes back is the P0220. its had a new genuine pedal fitted to try correct fault. i have cleaned the throttle body.

monitored the TP% with my fault finder and with ignition on no engine running obviously, and its reading 85.9%. if disconnect the connector from the TPS it reads 99.6%.

does this not sound back to front? would have thought with the engine not running it would be reading the opposite with closed throttle.

1.2 8v that doesnt run, quite strange, car runs normal on dash cleaner?

flisko said:

1.2 8v that doesnt run, quite strange, car runs normal on dash cleaner?

Click to expand...

Dash Cleaner?

chr1sd said:

Dash Cleaner?

Click to expand...

maxi brill

chr1sd said:

yes ive been having a look today. Went to scrap yard and bought a replacement engine harness to get rid of the butchered one the auto sparky left. got the car put back together and still doing the same.
read fault codes and was initially getting
P0220 Throttle/Pedal Position sensor/switch B Circuit.
P0340 Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Bank 1 or single sensor.

Reset the codes and tried starting again and same issue, starts and revs, then when revs fall back to 500rpm ish and dies.

after resetting codes, the only one that comes back is the P0220. its had a new genuine pedal fitted to try correct fault. i have cleaned the throttle body.

monitored the TP% with my fault finder and with ignition on no engine running obviously, and its reading 85.9%. if disconnect the connector from the TPS it reads 99.6%.

does this not sound back to front? would have thought with the engine not running it would be reading the opposite with closed throttle.

Click to expand...

This sounds like the throttle body.

What "faultfinder" are you using? About the best diagnosics for Fiats is Multiecuscan (MES) www.multiecuscan.net

MES will let you display the values for both pedal position tracks and both throttle butterfly position tracks and even graph them. This will let you see what is going on.

Download the free version and click "simulate" instead of connect to have play without connecting anything.
Suitable interface is

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Diagnostics-...D2-cables-adapters-MULTIECUSCAN/281712496622?
or
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fits-Fiat-Alfa-E...ables-for-use-with-MULTIECUSCAN/201357279123?
I've used both sellers.
Avoid the real cheap <£20 interfaces, most have a design flaw.

Did you check the fuel pressure?
Flisko is talking about "Easy Start" or a dodgy alternative, but oyu have already tried that.

Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

This sounds like the throttle body.

What "faultfinder" are you using?

Did you check the fuel pressure?
Flisko is talking about "Easy Start" or a dodgy alternative, but oyu have already tried that.

Robert G8RPI.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I havent checked the fuel pressure yet as i was about to go buy one from MAchinemart when i ran the diagnostic and came back with throttle sensor error.

I will try a complete throttle body next as my local salvage yard is only 2 mins from me and the have a GP and Ka's in there.
I will have a look at the diagnostic tools as well as my wife has a 500.

g8rpi said:

This sounds like the throttle body.

What "faultfinder" are you using?

Robert G8RPI.

Click to expand...

im using one of these. find it strange that its saying the thottle angle is 85% with ignition on and engine not running. pressing the pedal has no affect on the reading either.

https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FXNT301.html

chr1sd said:

im using one of these. find it strange that its saying the thottle angle is 85% with ignition on and engine not running. pressing the pedal has no affect on the reading either.

https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FXNT301.html

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That's a reasonable tool and Gendan are a good supplier. The electronic throttle has two position feedback channels you really need to see both. Might be worth dropping Gendan a email to ask if you can see each channel.

Do you know you can download the electronic service manual, eLearn from the forum?
https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?categoryid=20

Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

That's a reasonable tool and Gendan are a good supplier. The electronic throttle has two position feedback channels you really need to see both. Might be worth dropping Gendan a email to ask if you can see each channel.

Do you know you can download the electronic service manual, eLearn from the forum?
https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?categoryid=20

Robert G8RPI.

Click to expand...

Thanks Robert,
Yes I have downloaded it already, proving to be very useful. I have the full engine operation description and ecu pin outs printed. Trying to get my head round the wiring diagrams. For the cost of a cheap throttle body I'll try that first. Worst case it's the ecu, it appears that you can get replacements on ebay that have been virgin'd / unlocked for 70 quid ish. I only paid £150 for the car, so its not going to stand me a fortune hopefully.
Appreciate all the help

curious...are you saying that KA's and GP'S share things?..

nikrox said:

curious...are you saying that KA's and GP'S share things?..

Click to expand...

2nd Gen Ka is a Fiat 500. Same 1.2 8V engine as GP.

Get MES and a interface compatible with your GP.. there is a list of compatible interfaces.. and cables needed for each car and engine combination on the multiecuescan site.
https://www.multiecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

It's the best money you will ever spend when you buy a Fiat.
Using MES you select the following parameters:
- throttle (circuit a & b)
- accelerator pedal (circuit a& b)
(general info: the a and b circuits are in inverse proportion... one goes from 0%-100% the other from 100% -0%)
- you then go to the "Graph" tab, and click "Start"
- slowly press the accelerator pedal... you will see lines graphing on the screen

One of then will be dropping off ...will not correspond to the accelerator pedal position.
Find out if it's from the pedal or the throttle body; replace the detective part.

If the same error comes back on the same circuit, look into connectors, then wires.

Fuel pressure:

Don't bother with it until you fix the accelerator position errors, and the cam error

The ECU usually moves the throttle plate a bit each time you turn the key to on,... when you turn it on multiple times, it probably moves enough to provide enough air and sensor position for the car to start.... but not enough to keep it runing.

It's a cheap and easy problem to fix... even if the worst thing is happening (wires/ ecu), just get MES and start working on it, get your hands dirty.... you will fix it.
Post back results, we will try to help, but you need to do the work.

ok did a bit more today. managed to get a throttle body from a low mileage 500. fitted it and no more p0220, but still same problem. so took the crank sensor and cam sensor out to get part numbers off them and when i reconnected them the car started and ran for about 1 minute, little bit lumpy but was running. then stalled, and now doing the same thing as before.
only now getting the following codes instead of the original 2. :bang:

P0651 - Sensor Reference Voltage B circuit /open
P0105 - Manifold Barometric Pressure Circuit
P0340 - Camshaft Sensor - single sensor

I will order the MES tool and see if it gives any more detail as to whats going on.

Start with the basics, check battery connections are good, check you haven't left any connectors just barely plugged in, going around with a spray of contact cleaner will also be a good idea, and check and make note of each connector, look especially for signs of moisture/water corrosion.

Clear all 3 errors, see if they come back

If they do:
3 errors at the same time... there has to be something common...like a bad common ground or a 5v reference voltage problem...or one of the sensors can be internally shorted.
You can check both the 5v and the ground, with a multimeter and a load (small 5-10w light bulb)
eLearn is good to get the wires diagram, and see what is common between the three sensors that are throwing errors.

If it started that's a great sign.
The fact that it cut out a bit later, could also mean the problem might be a few wires that have rubbed against something and are sorting out..... think about the wires you moved when replacing the throttle body... check those wires carefully.

Don't rush and move all the wires and connectors at once.. move one, test to see if it starts, then test the second... go slow, methodically.

aurick86 said:

Start with the basics, check battery connections are good, check you haven't left any connectors just barely plugged in, going around with a spray of contact cleaner will also be a good idea, and check and make note of each connector, look especially for signs of moisture/water corrosion.

Clear all 3 errors, see if they come back

If they do:
3 errors at the same time... there has to be something common...like a bad common ground or a 5v reference voltage problem...or one of the sensors can be internally shorted.
You can check both the 5v and the ground, with a multimeter and a load (small 5-10w light bulb)
eLearn is good to get the wires diagram, and see what is common between the three sensors that are throwing errors.

If it started that's a great sign.
The fact that it cut out a bit later, could also mean the problem might be a few wires that have rubbed against something and are sorting out..... think about the wires you moved when replacing the throttle body... check those wires carefully.

Don't rush and move all the wires and connectors at once.. move one, test to see if it starts, then test the second... go slow, methodically.

Click to expand...

thanks again. i have printed the full diagrams and connector pin outs from elearn. The only common fault that keeps returning is the Camshaft sensor error. i will test all the connections between sensors and ecu tomorrow.