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Old 26-02-2019   #1
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Exclamation Injector or valve clearance?

Hi guys,

I have Punto III (Grande Punto) manufactured 2013, it's 1.4 8V engine. After heating up engine to operating temp I hear this noise, coming from 1st valve area: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k66...ew?usp=sharing . I found also YT video with almost the same issue :
. There are tons of videos about valve tapping, ticking, fuel injectors, but nobody says if he solved his issue and what was the rrot cause.
Do you have some experience with this type of high ticking sound? Info: sparks are new, checked spark cables, no errors in ECU, changed oil to factory default (Selenia K), new timing belt. Checked injectors via MultiECUscan - there's electric part check only and all injectors were ticking OK... So what it is? Injector or valve clearance?

Thank you very much!

Rado
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Grande Punto (III) 1.4 8V m.y.2013 (350A1000)

Last edited by Rado77; 26-02-2019 at 14:53.
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Old 26-02-2019   #2
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Hi.

If it changes with temperature.. it is most likely a mechanical noise..

NOT the injector.

Charlie
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Old 26-02-2019   #3
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Thank you very much Charlie for info! I'm also checking all other threads regarding this issue... ANd what do you think - car has only 55.000 km and it's 5 years old...isn't it so soon for valve clearance adjustment ?
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Old 26-02-2019   #4
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Isn't valve clearance hydraulically adjusted on these engines? Hydraulic tappers.

The only way it would make noise with hydraulic tappers is, if one/more were stuck open ... by crap in oil.


The injectors are pretty noisy; I've got LPG and the lpg injectors are quieter than the petrol ones.
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Old 26-02-2019   #5
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

This is FIRE 199 engine (350A1000). There are tappets like...bucket turned upside down, with shim inserted on it. If there is hydraulic pressure from bottom side(empty side of tappet)...I don't know. But from videos it's not constructed from few parts...it's just "empty bucket". I also think that it's not injector, by listening it through screwdriver the sound wasnt so loud...and I can hear it on valve cover in 1st valve area. I also disconnected injectors one by one on idle, but sound was still there
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Last edited by Rado77; 26-02-2019 at 16:19.
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Old 26-02-2019   #6
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Check the valve clearances..

At least you will have more information then..
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Old 26-02-2019   #7
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

I'm checking prices for this "repair". But - new info today - Hot iddle, ticking was there of course - I opened oil input and expected louder ticking from 1st piston valves but....nothing! Only classic "brrrrrrrrr" . So I took long screwdriver and checked sound of injector 1, then injectors 2, 3 and 4. Ticking sound from outside was synchronized with injector 1. It has also different clicking than other three. So it looks that inj 1 is guilty guy! It's still working ok, but...how long? This is really tricky issue...I'll also add STP aditive (1st time in my life :-) ) into gas tank - for cleaning injectors and intake valves and we will see...
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Last edited by Rado77; 26-02-2019 at 20:32.
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Old 26-02-2019   #8
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Post Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Unfortunately ticking sounds are almost the same for injectors (gasoline or LPG) and valves.
There is also VVT, fuel vapors system (forgot proper name), as a sound source.

If there was a timing belt job, why "lash" (valve clearance) wasn't checked?
Check clearances.
Slowacja? You should understand Polish guide or English version here on this forum.
Fuel additives may work or not - worth trying.
Another option is a injector swap (change between cylinders, shuffle them), check if sound "travels" along with injector number 1. But if you swap them, you can clean on the bench (better option than fuel additives).
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Last edited by GrandePunto PL; 26-02-2019 at 21:42. Reason: Injector cleaning or swap.
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Old 27-02-2019   #9
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

You are right GrandePunto PL ;-) During timing belt change I asked them to check valve clearances...but they didn't do it! I asked why....they said "there must be whole valve case restored". I said whaaat? On engine which is running ok and is 5 years old??? Are you joking? So they loosed another customer :-) I asked yhem what really is wrong with that head...but they cannot say....I'm talking to one guy who has injectors for 15 euro/piece. So - 1st I try additive, 2nd I'll buy used injector and 3rd is valve clearance. Regarding VVT - it's variable valve timing. You meant PCV - purge camshaft ventilation or valve - there is no PCV valve on this engine, only naked pipe from valve cover to intake.
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Old 27-02-2019   #10
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Quote Originally Posted by Rado77 View Post
.. Regarding VVT - it's variable valve timing. You meant PCV - purge camshaft ventilation or valve - there is no PCV valve on this engine, only naked pipe from valve cover to intake.
He might have been thinking about fuel canister evap solenoid.
On some fiats it's under the intake manifold.
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Old 27-02-2019   #11
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Yea, now I know....OK, I'll check it. But - there's connector on it as I remember with some rubber cover or something like that....how to unplug it? I'm lazy to remove flap again :-) But it's on the right side of engine, and my sound is coming from left side (1st valve area). But I'll check it - I can disconnect cable on iddle and hear... But how to remove that connector pls?
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Last edited by Rado77; 27-02-2019 at 11:09.
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Old 27-02-2019   #12
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Cool Re: Injector or valve clearance?

VVT itself (solenoid and camshaft wheel) can make noises. And it is near cylinder 1.


How often do you change your oil? If you believe in "long life" bulsh*t, there's your problem.
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Old 27-02-2019   #13
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

I know all this info ;-) I also took apart VVT system on Renault Megane2 so I know how it's working, issues, sounds and what can cause which noise there. Anyway - I can remove cable on idle from dephaser's control valve...to make sure.
Regarding oil - I don't know how often previous owner changed it, but after buying that was the 1st thing - change oil to original Selenia K + original sparks NGK + cleaning flap + checking air filter ;-) Overal: engine is running well, no issues with idle or acceleration or engine sound....only this stupid ticking noise after reaching operational temperature !
Additional info: today I receive number from used injector - one guy is selling injectors from crashed Punto 1.2 8V for 15 Eur/15 $ per piece. Plus, in original dealer I can do valve clearances for 70 Eur including new valve cover gasket ;-)
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Last edited by Rado77; 27-02-2019 at 14:35.
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Old 27-02-2019   #14
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

So, today I checked ticking once again, and it looks that it's not going from timing belt side, but from the middle part. And also it looks that problem is not with injectors. Especialy if ticking noise rise after reaching engine operational temperature. Using screwdriver, I can hear this ticking anywhere on valve cover, but louder is in middle part. I don't know why I was fixed on 1st valve... So I will attend official service to make clearances. This is also good for correct combusting and presure inside cylinders. That's more important for me to check on used car...
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Last edited by Rado77; 27-02-2019 at 21:23.
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Old 03-03-2019   #15
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Re: Injector or valve clearance?

Today's video of sound on warm engine + MES diagnostics data...maybe you can tell anything what you hear or see. For me is interesting for example Knock sensor signal for 4th valve - it's higher than for other valves...is it normal?
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock thanked for this post
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Last edited by Rado77; 03-03-2019 at 20:49.
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