Technical Starter Motor problem

[Robbie62]

If you have seen my previous posts you will know I have been having a problem with mine starting it started with a grinding sound when turning the key (starter motor changed) did not solve it, earth leads checked did not solve it direct earth from battery to starter motor was suggested did not solve it (now we are talking fly wheel damage) maybe. Now what's happened on a couple of occasions is when you turn the key NOTHING next turn of key car starts. Next question could it be a new starter motor relay that is required? If yes has anybody got one going cheap as I am slowly running out of money trying to solve this LOL. Any advice would be a great help.
Fiat Punto Grande 1.4 8v 58 plate

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi.
When it doesnt crank.. do the fash livhts still dim.

Still sounding like a poor connection.

Get back to us once you have checked this

 

[Robbie62]

What connections should I be looking at first

 

[varesecrazy]

Ok.
You have added a 2nd earth.. no improvement.

You say at times.. turning the key does NOTHING.. there may be a simple reason.

Did you also say it will run for a few seconds then just stop?

That would be a different scenario.


Sorry.. but difficult to follow progress over several threads.

 

[Robbie62]

What happens very so often it can be days sometimes before it does it I will turn the key and get the crunching sound like the starter is not engaging hence new starter fitted. Normally on the second turn of the key without doing anything different it starts perfectly. It has on a couple of occasions done it where it has taken a couple of turns of the key but its never failed to start and it runs perfectly well once started. Its only done the dead ignition thing twice and it hasn't done it lately. I have been told apparently its pure luck where the flywheel stops after turning the ignition off and that's why its intermittent and until the starter lines up with the possible damaged teeth on the flywheel then it won't happen. But I have had advice steering me away from fly wheel problem, some don't believe it. Also difficult to locate an electrical fault if it isn't there to detect at the time. Driving me nut's
Cheers
Robbie

 

[g8rpi]

What happens very so often it can be days sometimes before it does it I will turn the key and get the crunching sound like the starter is not engaging hence new starter fitted. Normally on the second turn of the key without doing anything different it starts perfectly. It has on a couple of occasions done it where it has taken a couple of turns of the key but its never failed to start and it runs perfectly well once started. Its only done the dead ignition thing twice and it hasn't done it lately. I have been told apparently its pure luck where the flywheel stops after turning the ignition off and that's why its intermittent and until the starter lines up with the possible damaged teeth on the flywheel then it won't happen. But I have had advice steering me away from fly wheel problem, some don't believe it. Also difficult to locate an electrical fault if it isn't there to detect at the time. Driving me nut's
Cheers
Robbie

Sounds like a damaged flywheel ring gear to me. I don't know if yu car has a inspection hole in the bellhousing. If not you will hae to remove the starter motor. inspect the ring gear as it is turned slowly (battery diconnnected, keys out, in 1st gear, one front wheel blocked rotate the other wheel ). Any broken or damaged teeth need further investigation.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[varesecrazy]

Agree.. to a point.

But if there are no teeth in mesh at 1st attempt.. how does it work on second attempt.. ?
UNLESS the starter is still not throwing out properly..
(Pointing back to electrical supply issues)

I hade a worn contactor ring in ignition barrel.. the clue was the dash light NOT dimming.. as there was no demand from starter

 

[g8rpi]

If there is a little movement on the first attempt the gear on the motor may revolve enought to engage on second attempt.

To rule out electrical issues a voltage measurement at the small terminal of the starter is required. As the fault is intermittent I'd sugget a text lamp rather than a multimeter. Temporarlly run a wire from the small terminal of the starter into the cab and connect a small bulb (side light or interior light bulb for example. With a all class wedge end bulb the contcact is a wire folded over the glass. you can unfold this and attach a insulated wire so you don't need a holder) between there and ground. The light will come on when the starter is activated. If the light comes on when the key is turned to start the issue is starter motor, ring gear or high current wiring to starter. If the light does not come on when the key is turned it is a low current control circuit issue. This could be key switch, relay (body computer) immobiliser, fuse or wiring.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Robbie62]

Thank you all for the information I really appreciate it I will certainly try all the recommended possibilities . Does anyone know if my car has a flywheel inspection port or does it have to be through the starter port and if it does have to be via the starter is there enough room to get a good inspection of the flywheel.
Fiat Grande Punto 1.4 8v Petrol 58 plate
Thanks again for all the help I’ll let you know about the bulb and wite

 

[varesecrazy]

Excellent suggestion with the glass sidelight bulbs.. never thought about it..

Electric are not really my thing..
(Even after 30 years of FIATs..)

AFAIK. The rubber bung finished a while ago..
But just look down past battery.. if its there you would soon see it.

But the bulb test should be a LOT less bother.

 

[Robbie62]

Sorry to sound so naive but what size and type of wire will I need for this bulb test

 

[g8rpi]

Hi,
single core insulated wire, Does not have to be thick, large enough to be easily handled is fine. Speaker wire would do if you have it already. Current is less than 1 amp.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Robbie62]

Many many thanks I will get back to you as soon as I have an answer I can’t thank you enough for your help. I am happy to pay the price of what ever repairs are needed even flywheel change If I can get someone to be upfront and tell me what’s wrong

 

[markfor]

When I turn ignition key get clicking noise No start Release ignition and clicking continues! Think it is Solenoid fault??

 

[Detroitdiesel]

When I turn ignition key get clicking noise No start Release ignition and clicking continues! Think it is Solenoid fault??

Here we go again

It can be anything mate. I suggest you start by reading up on this thread
https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/318839-electrical-gremlin-thread.html
Some questions that could help us pinpoint the problem:
- do the lights dim when the behavior occurs?
- do you own a multimeter? if yes. tell us the voltage of the battery terminal when behavior occurs and the voltage on the battery terminal wires. If they are high-ish and the equal to each other try to measure across the starter motor when trying to start (annoying because you'll have to be under the car)

Good luck!:slayer:

 

[Bernievarian]

When I turn ignition key get clicking noise No start Release ignition and clicking continues! Think it is Solenoid fault??

That all depend WHAT click you hear ...

- HUGE click: the solenoid pulls but its contact doesn't close; starter does not run
- HUGE click: the solenoid pulls, make contact but there is no + at terminal 30; starter does not run
- Little click: the T18 relay pulls but the solenoid doesn't: broken wire (terminal 50), blown fuse (F35), ignition + missing or relay T6 not closing

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[markfor]

My starter motor was OK Turned out to be Earth fault!!

 

[Bernievarian]

Earth fault, as usual ... That's the VERY first check and has been many-many times describbed !!

Anyway, thanks for having shared your experience...

BRs, Bernie

 

[markfor]

Turned out to be Earthing fault! I could have sorted it myself if I had known!
Can u give li to Earth faults on this forum?? Thanks

 

[markfor]

Turned out to be earthing fault!