Technical Electrical Gremlin thread further explanation pls?

[Lucy in the sky]

My lights are smart - a really helpful feature for not so smart me - flattened the battery on my last car more times than I care to remember by forgetting to switch off. Whilst searching for new car battery I came across this gizmo for £5 which you keep plugged into cigarette lighter & gives you a constant reading of battery performance - seemed a good idea? I do tend to do lot of short journeys & I know this drains battery. At the mo I'm very reluctant to go far in case it leaves me stranded?

Sadly, I lost a close friend after fatal heart attack 18months ago. He was an absolute car fanatic & did the little jobs on my car but also 'supervised' visits to garage, MOTs etc. Since then I've had a couple of v bad experiences at two different garages ( ripped off due to my ignorance). I have a recommended garage I will try next time.

In terms of battery for 8v 1200cc (63 type) prices go from £30 - 100 , clearly Bosch etc at higher prices. They are variously described as heavy duty, extra heavy duty etc but I suspect that's just adverising blurb? guarantees 3-5 years but are such guarantees actually valid? Don't mind paying a bit more if its worth it but I'm rather broke at the moment so watching the pennies. Any suggestions,?

 

[Lucy in the sky]

PS Fiat Punto Dynamic,2006 8v 1242cc - bargain banger buy after unexpected MOT write off of last car. Tidy condition , 55k miles with no major concerns on MOT advisories. Don't expect it to last that long given age & price paid (£550) but didn't expect the non start problems within a week. Private sale so no come back.

Having said that when it does start its a smooth, quiet & nippy

My hope at time was to get at least 12 months to next MOT without having to spend a lot on it....at that price and given how little I know about cars its pretty much down to the luck of the draw .

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

PS Fiat Punto Dynamic,2006 8v 1242cc - bargain banger buy after unexpected MOT write off of last car. Tidy condition , 55k miles with no major concerns on MOT advisories. Don't expect it to last that long given age & price paid (£550) but didn't expect the non start problems within a week. Private sale so no come back.

Having said that when it does start its a smooth, quiet & nippy

My hope at time was to get at least 12 months to next MOT without having to spend a lot on it....at that price and given how little I know about cars its pretty much down to the luck of the draw .

Lucy. First can I say how sorry I am to hear of your recent loss. At 72 years young (ha ha) this is beginning to be a bit of a feature of my life as contemporary friends/colleagues/and others depart for "pastures new".

Your car is not a high tech vehicle and thus a first class DIY/home mechanic proposition. What part of the country do you live in? maybe, if a technically savvy forum member is anywhere near you, they might be able to render assistance or advise you? If we knew roughly where you are someone might know of a reliable garage for you to try. Only a suggestion - County/city would be focus enough.

 

[g8rpi]

My lights are smart - a really helpful feature for not so smart me - flattened the battery on my last car more times than I care to remember by forgetting to switch off. Whilst searching for new car battery I came across this gizmo for £5 which you keep plugged into cigarette lighter & gives you a constant reading of battery performance - seemed a good idea? I do tend to do lot of short journeys & I know this drains battery. At the mo I'm very reluctant to go far in case it leaves me stranded?

Sadly, I lost a close friend after fatal heart attack 18months ago. He was an absolute car fanatic & did the little jobs on my car but also 'supervised' visits to garage, MOTs etc. Since then I've had a couple of v bad experiences at two different garages ( ripped off due to my ignorance). I have a recommended garage I will try next time.

In terms of battery for 8v 1200cc (63 type) prices go from £30 - 100 , clearly Bosch etc at higher prices. They are variously described as heavy duty, extra heavy duty etc but I suspect that's just adverising blurb? guarantees 3-5 years but are such guarantees actually valid? Don't mind paying a bit more if its worth it but I'm rather broke at the moment so watching the pennies. Any suggestions,?

Hi for your older car look at a Lion from Eurocarparts

https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/.../most-popular-car-battery/063-car-batteries/?
With current "XMAS75" discount code it's about £36 with 3 year warranty. They will also give you £5 back for the old battery.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[Bernievarian]

Hi for your older car look at a Lion from Eurocarparts

https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/.../most-popular-car-battery/063-car-batteries/?
With current "XMAS75" discount code it's about £36 with 3 year warranty. They will also give you £5 back for the old battery.


Robert G8RPI.

That one is the cheapest but also has the less capacity (Ah) and instant current (Amps) so I wouldn't recommend it since Lucy 's already facing discharging issue due to Her driving habits.
The real problem is that no-one even knows if the battery is actually at fault ...

Nobody in Lucy's vicinity to have a look at the car ??

Cheers, Bernie

 

[Lucy in the sky]

I live near Blackburn - but I hear what your saying - go get the battery checked ask and take note of the
actual reading & resist being sold a battery there and then. Does it make a difference that its just been charged, should I wait a but longer? A friend has recommended a mechanic they have used for years so I will try there. Bernie is right to suggest my short journeys may indicate a stronger battery is required.
.
Paul's death was a tremendous shock to all it was so unexpected & he was only 62. He was due to retire & had already bought his first retirement project- a vintage Lexus he was going to restore.

Makes you realise you should count your blessings. I celebrated my 60th a couple of weeks ago & was subject to much ribbing from younger friends & family - OMG how does it feel to be 60 ? Far better than the alternative was my reply.

 

[Bernievarian]

... Does it make a difference that its just been charged, should I wait a but longer? A friend has recommended a mechanic they have used for years so I will try there. Bernie is right to suggest my short journeys may indicate a stronger battery is required ...

Hi Lucy,

Yes it makes a huge difference since it has now stored a lot of energy…

BUT: it may be tired (electrodes and electrolyth DO wear) and getting less storage capacity and longer reaction time, resulting in less ability to power whithdraw AND recharge.

SO: the short journeys drive style will not allow full recharge and the load percentage will fall with time, with the start issue reappearing soon or later.
A stronger battery will ALSO discharge with time, but having more capacity it MAY recharge completely once you'd drive a longer Journey and provide more 'reserve' than a smaller one.

IF you really only do hops with the car, a (quite) cheap solution would be to hook a 'battery optimizer' on it: this thingy is used worlwide by the bikers (as me) to keep their bike's tinny battery alive during winter storage. Your recommended garage will certainly be happy to instal one on your car, you would then connect it (easy plug) every now and then (experience would tell) to keep your battery up to its top form !!

Those devices are electronically regulated and only flow what current is necessary to maintain the battery at its highest and DO NOT require unplugging it. About 40£ at a bike shop and sometimes 15ish @ Lidl during special offers …

BTW, welcome to the "3rd age", personally entered in september ;-).

Sorry also about your friend's lost :-(

Cheers, Bernie

 

[Lucy in the sky]

Thanks Bernie I had read about battery optimisers & wondered if they were a good idea? 3rd age is a new one on me - old git wherever .....I'm still going to see the Foo Fighters at Leeds Festival next summer.

Its been a while since I was on the back of a motorbike ( Goa, a few years ago) but was just reminiscing yesterday about a daft bet I won at 18 when I lived in London. A fella bet me a tenner that if he took me on the back of his Kawasaki 600 round London I would beg him to slow down. I still remember going round Marble Arch , Oxford Circus etc way too fast & what a thrill it was ,I won and tenner was a lot back then! Very stupid & lucky police didn't stop us but I knew he was an experienced rider (had been in TT) & I figured he wasn't going to crash his bike to win a tenner. Ah...the foolishness of youth. No car , matterare like a good ride on a motorbike

 

[Lucy in the sky]

Was going to say....no car no matter how fast or fancy can beat a good motorbike ride, even when your just a passenger as I used to be.

 

[g8rpi]

That one is the cheapest but also has the less capacity (Ah) and instant current (Amps) so I wouldn't recommend it since Lucy 's already facing discharging issue due to Her driving habits.
The real problem is that no-one even knows if the battery is actually at fault ...

Nobody in Lucy's vicinity to have a look at the car ??

Cheers, Bernie

Hi Bernie, It's only a 1.2 8v with minimum electronics so a 40AH battery should be fine. A higher capacity battery will take longer to get to full charge so may loose capacity sooner. The amount of charge available is the alternator output times the journey time a bigger battery won't help that. The OP seems to be on a budget and it does not seem to be a long term car so why spend more than you need for a battery with a 3 year warranty and "local" support. The top-up charger is a good idea.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Bernievarian]

I must disagree with you this time Robert ;-)

One can consider the battery as a storage device: the more you put in the bucket, even with a small flow garden hose, the more flowers you can irrigate in the garden. The bucket will not empty faster, it will just last longer; i.e. until you have the possibility to come back to the faucet ...

Plus the 'poorly equipped' GP has all the equipment that modern cars (must) have: demister, air blower fan, headlights, electric power steering, rear fog lights ... all of them having high power demand. This is not where the battery size is calculated but rather the engine (thus the starter) 'size' will tell the battery needs. It's pretty obvious that the bigger the capacity, the highest instant (cranking) current you can draw off the battery ...
Budget wise, one need to be rich to buy cheap things. How much would cost a taxi if the car doesn't start on 'D' day because of the flatened small battery ? Or a AA call at the supermarket for the same reason after a miss-start ?

@ Lucy: never sat in a Rally car passenger's seat ? ;-)

Cheers, Bernie

 

[varesecrazy]

Was going to say....no car no matter how fast or fancy can beat a good motorbike ride, even when your just a passenger as I used to be.

You can go back and EDIT.. up to an hour later..

 

[g8rpi]

I must disagree with you this time Robert ;-)

One can consider the battery as a storage device: the more you put in the bucket, even with a small flow garden hose, the more flowers you can irrigate in the garden. The bucket will not empty faster, it will just last longer; i.e. until you have the possibility to come back to the faucet ...

Plus the 'poorly equipped' GP has all the equipment that modern cars (must) have: demister, air blower fan, headlights, electric power steering, rear fog lights ... all of them having high power demand. This is not where the battery size is calculated but rather the engine (thus the starter) 'size' will tell the battery needs. It's pretty obvious that the bigger the capacity, the highest instant (cranking) current you can draw off the battery ...
Budget wise, one need to be rich to buy cheap things. How much would cost a taxi if the car doesn't start on 'D' day because of the flatened small battery ? Or a AA call at the supermarket for the same reason after a miss-start ?

@ Lucy: never sat in a Rally car passenger's seat ? ;-)

Cheers, Bernie

Hi Bernie,
To follow your analogy the problem is not the size of the bucket (battery AH) but the size of the hose and how long the tap is turned on for (alternator rating and journey time). If you have a 40AH battery and a 70A alternator if everything was perfect with no loads or losses it would take over half an hour to fully charge a "flat" battery. If we take 12A for headlights and taillights and a conservative 8A for fuel pump ECUs etc we have 50A left for battery charging. Charge efficency is around 80% so if battery is half discharged you need to put 25AH into it which is half an hours driving with 50A available. In practice you will not even manage this rate of charge for various reasons. A bigger battery will just last a bit longer after a long drive, for short trips it will just get charged to a lower percentage of its capacity. As it's never getting fully charged it will loose capacity due to sulfation. You don't need a bigger bucket you need a bigger hose. This is where your suggestion of a trickle charger is good. It trickles a little into the bucket overnight keeping it full.

I do know what I'm talking about, I've designed charging systems and sized batteries for aircraft as part of my day job.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Lucy in the sky]

No, Bernie - cant say as I ever got the opportunity to experience that one ...but if you're daring me ;-)

I have been a passenger in a Microlight a few times , one of those that's just a pod so the passenger is strapped in but nothing at either side of the back seat but blue sky, once you get over the feeling that you are going to fall to your death below, its quite an unexpectedly chilled out experience, apart from the time we had a real bad landing & my Sons who were watching heard me screaming half a mile away.

 

[Lucy in the sky]

To return to the dreaded battery (or not ) problem . I intend to try and get it checked out tomorrow or Thursday. BUT ...if new battery is indicated its either go for the cheapest option, likewise with battery maintainer ( a couple on Amazon for 15 -17 quid but with around 90 5star reviews) which I realise is possibly false economy but ' needs must when the devil drives' or wait until late Jan when I can afford better ones. Likewise if mechanic needed it will have to wait. Whilst I'm still in limbo land I will drive as little as possible & no further than I can be 'rescued' from if needs be.
I have to prioritise spending on fitting of new gas hob asap as mine has leak & so gas is turned off meaning no central heating either ...and my house is FREEZING.

 

[Lucy in the sky]

FIAT PUNTO BRAVA BRAVO 1.2 1.4 1.6 STILO CAR BATTERY 063 12V HEAVY DUTY 24HRDEL*
£29.99 + £2.99 postage

And...
ERAYAK
4.6 out of 5 stars 94 Reviews
1000mA Car Battery Charger TUV GS Certified, ERAYAK Fully Automatic 6V/12V Trickle Charger Maintainer for 40Ah Lead-acid Battery, Maintenance-free, CA-CA, AGM and Gel Battery Amazon £21.00

I know that buying cheap often costs more in the longer run .. But if the battery is at fault would these two products fit my needs for now,,?

Also, was in my local ' sells all kinds of everything shop' earlier & I saw something called a 'digital multimeter' for a tenner. Is this the gizmo you use to check car batteries? Said very little on the packaging & Tried googling the brand I saw later on to try & find out but couldn't find it.

Suspect I'm getting as boring & as laughable as Theresa May & Brexit with all these questions but unlike Ms May I do at least try to listen and understand