Technical shaking/vibration front wheels at 60-80 km/h

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Technical shaking/vibration front wheels at 60-80 km/h

DJS

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Hi all,

I have a 1.3 multijet GP where the front wheels (and the whole car) shakes when I accelerates between 60-80 km/h. If I release the accelerator then the shacking stops. Also, if I keep a constant speed (e.g. 70 km/h) the shaking stops.
I have tried to change the wheels to my winter tires. Still the same shaking.
I have changed the left drive axle completely and most of the right drive axle (not the part going into the gear box). I have also changed the front disc brakes. None of this has helped.
I am running out of ideas, so any suggestions are very much appreciated.

Daniel
 
Hi
I have the same car and the same vibration when accelerating , so is also looking for a fix.
 
Thanks XtruderZ and DGPunto!

It also shakes with an another set of wheels on, so I am quite sure it isn't wheel balancing that courses the problem.

I will try to check the gearbox and engine mounts.
 
Yes, I think it's one or more of the mounts. You changed the wheels and the driveshafts already.

Usually a worn spider (inner CV) gives similar symptoms to this but mostly under load (e.g. accelerating up hill and especially when cornering) rather than just accelerating in a straight line.




Ralf S.
 
Thanks Ralf for the input.
I have today tried to have a look at the engine and gearbox mounts.
I can locate a mount on each side and one at the rear. Is it correct that there is only these 3 mounts?
 
That sounds about right. The one to check is the one on the right hand end of the engine. That seems to support the greatest weight so is always the most likely to fail.

If the mount doesn't look physically knackered, get someone to rev the engine (a small amount.. just on and off the gas a few times.. they don't need to red-line it.. :D ) and watch to see whether the engine moves a lot when the power comes on and off. The engine should vibrate a small amount but it shouldn't move significantly.

Ralf S.
 
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Even if a engine mount looks good, the rubber can be aged/hardened.
I recently (like 6 months ago) replaced all my engine mounts, could not believe the difference. The mounts were in perfect optical condition, none were visibly cracked.

The new rubber is much more flexible.


A vibration at certain speeds might be one/more bent rims(a wheel can be balanced and bent).

Is the vibration from the front or the rear?

I had a horrible vibration (right after replacing the engine mounts and exhaust mounts) above 128 km/h.... the back wheels were just resonating with the road just above that speed.
I replaced the shocks, and after that the wheels calmed down 90%.... the rear beam bushes might cause the rest ... not leaking yet, but the rubber seems aged.
 
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Hi Daniel,

First off I would like to say that I am not very experienced with cars in general so take this post with a grain of salt :).

I had quite similar symptoms to yours a while back when 2 of the wheel bearings on my Grande Punto faulted. The shaking/sound intensified when I turned "away" from the faulty side if that makes sense.

Anyway, more likely get the correct answer by listening to the other guys/girls but I thought I would put my 2 cents out there. Hope you find the issue.

Cheers,
Johan
 
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Hi all,

I have a 1.3 multijet GP where the front wheels (and the whole car) shakes when I accelerates between 60-80 km/h. If I release the accelerator then the shacking stops. Also, if I keep a constant speed (e.g. 70 km/h) the shaking stops.
I have tried to change the wheels to my winter tires. Still the same shaking.
I have changed the left drive axle completely and most of the right drive axle (not the part going into the gear box). I have also changed the front disc brakes. None of this has helped.
I am running out of ideas, so any suggestions are very much appreciated.

Daniel


What about higher speeds? Like 120-130 (KM/H)

If the shaking is very strong I think it's related to engine mounts.
If the shaking is light but always there on high loads (full accel - low speed - high gear) it could be a bad CV joint.

Is the steering wheel shaking too?
 
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Had the same shake 1 year ago, changed the right side axle and it was fine for 25000km, now Shaking Stevens is back.

So changed the right axle again to no avail.
Next cleaned all the wheels that are filled with mock this time of year from road salt etc which cause the car to shake at motorway speeds, but this has nought to do with the shake under acceleration. Wheels are balanced and brand new so not the culprit.

Well this time it is the left axle (UK passenger side) that is shot. It has the same ca. 3cm free play as the right hand had when it was gone. I hope this will send Shaking Stevens packing back home.

It is the spider = 3 bearing housing, that is not strong enough for the torque of this little engine, so torque under acceleration eats them spiders, only a few millimeters, but that is too much play for a bearing to do its job smoothly. The same axles are used for petrol engines. They should be refinforced for the diesel, but Marcello at Fiat engineering dept probably though that, "noo... it is a fine for this carra also, no?"
Modern cars have this proble sorted with turbos that kick in immediately at low revs, so torque is even adn does not destroy the axles and bushings...not like the 1.3 mjet that requires Lada style revs to take off from halt. (MOT lads almost could not get the car out of the brake testing dyno last year :)

So to remedy: Here is what you do: order (on ebay or whereever) the whole axles with shafts & nuts (these are quite bulk as the same is used for Opel/Vauxhall Corsas, so do not bother to buy just the outer or inner axles) as below if yours is the 75bhp version (if other look at eper for the correct partnr)

-------------------------
Right axle (UK Driver side) for Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 mjet Diesel 75hp part number:
46308329.
I ordered from ebay.uk seller j_r2006, (their item ID was 142239530881)
at £82 shipped to Finland. Came in 1 week and perfect quality.

-------------------------
Left axle (UK passanger side) for Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 mjet Diesel 75hp part number:
46308345.
I ordered 17.11.17 from ebay.uk seller in Poland Uniwersal.pl, (their item ID was 332106905941)
at £60 shipped to Finland. Should come within a few weeks and should be teh correct part. I will post here.

-------------------------

Next in line is to change the tierod ends,lower control arms, and stabilizers, which can be ordered from e.g. Autodoc for about £100 the lot for both sides. That should make the front of the car new..for ours is driven 170.000km already so these are just basic wearables..

The engine mounts might be good to change also, as was said above, that albeit they look ok to the eye, our engine rocks like Mick Jagger on start up and shut down, so they are prob shot.

I'll keep posted, and would be most glad if others tackling the same would alse find the time. Cheers
 

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Thanks all for your replies.

The shaking is in the front as the steering wheel shakes like crazy when accelerating between 60-80 km/h. The quicker the acceleration, the worse the shaking.

I have done the following witout resolving the shaking:
1) It isn't the wheels that are out of balance. I have changed them witout any change in the condition.
2) I have changed the stabilizers as the car also were making a clunck noise when hitting bumps on the road (I do this approx every 2nd year when this noise appears)
3) i have changed the complete left hand axle. The right axle (except the housing going into the gearbox) was changed at a garage, as I was on vacation when one of the CV joints broke. I had the shaking at this point and hoped that shaking would disappear when they changed the axle.
4) i have changed the brake discs and pads.
5) when reving the gas I don't think the engine moves much more than it is supposed to do. But it is hard to see with my untrained eye if it is to much movement.

It annoys me that the garage didn't change the complete right hand axle. I have to check this for play.

QUESTION: Do you push up and down in the axle to check for play? Because I guess it is designed to go in and out at the housing.
 
Hello Daniel, do not worry, I am 99% sure it is the part that your garage did not change that is the cause for the terrible shaking and juddering. My GP does the exact same starting at about 45km/h-75, and then whenever I need torque to accelerate, so therefore it is the axle that is bad.

The axles should not have any free play at any direction. Not up, not down, not left, not right. Some mechanics may say that is is normal....well it just is not. So out with the old and in with the new, and off you go happily again.

Look at the picture in my post above: the inner axle the garage did not change for you has the spider housing (tulip shaped) which has now eroded away a few millimeters inside its cup causing the vibration as the bearing balls are not tightly against the tulip shaped spider thingy anymore.

I do hope this is the case for you. As you are in DK, I bet the garage will charge you like 400euros for the inner axle, as they did for me here in Finland....Well do not pay, buy the part your self, as I did this time for 90euros as above stated, and you can change it yourself if you only have a warm enough garage and basic tools.

However it is an 1,5 hrs job for a garage, so you may not want to bother with the 32mm and 36 millimeter size. If you have the nerve, you should have the garage change it for you for the price of a coffee, because they do not seem to know a whole lot about drive axles /causes for torque vibration...I am no mechanic, but using common sense and reading and watching what possible causes for problems are is not too difficult these days of the internet.

Have your car VIN (ZFA.....), Engine type (199A2000 for me) ready before you order, as it is wise to double check from the seller the axle you want is axle that will fit your exact car.

- Hope this helps, have a good weekend , -Andy
 
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Thanks Andy.

My GP is the same engine type as yours 75hp, 199A2000.

I have a fully equiped garage (with car lifts, air tools, all other tools etc.) at work that I can use, as the company has bought a closed garage next door as an employee benefit. So it was no problem changing the left side axle. OR... finding a thin walled 36 mm socket that could undo the axle nut was the first trouble. Getting the spider house exiting the gearbox was the next. Elearn says remove it using a suitable tool - that ended up beeing a giant pipe wrench and a big hammer. :)

I used this video as a helping tool + ELearn:

I was wondering if I could just replace the inner part of the right axle:
thumb


as the outer part of the axle is only 3000 km old (4 months)?
13.png


But this will might cause trouble if the bearing balls on the outer part has been worn a bit by the old broke spider housing on the inner part?
So this is maybe not were I should save 45 Euro compared to buying a new full axle.
 
The most common reason for a car to shake is related to tires. If the tires are out of balance then wheels can shake. But your case doesn't sounds so. Probably it's your rims that causing vibration, try new rims and tires. Hopefully it will solve problem.
 
thanks lorell for your answer.

I tried both my winter and summer tires - the shaking is still the same. It was the first I tried out to solve the issue. The winter tires are mounted on steel rims and the summer on alloy rims.

So it is definitely not a wheel balance issue. :)
 
The driveshaft only has two working pieces - the inner and the outer CV joints.

If you have one good (outer) CV joint already, then you don't need to buy a whole driveshaft - that just makes life easier. You can replace just the old inner/spider CV.

I did mine recently:

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/454298-tripod-spider-replacement.html

The symptoms I got was a growling or vibration when the worn joint was loaded, so for the right hand CV, it was worse when I turned left. It also rattled more when the car was loaded and going up hill (I guess the driveshaft is less horizontal).

If you get under the car and push the driveshaft upwards (hold the shaft just next to the cup) then it should not move at all (although "some" play is normal). Mine moved several centimeters up and down. If the other side is good/new, you can compare the two sides. If one moves a lot more than the other, it's knackered.

Spider is an easy fix... hammering on the new one without breaking it was the trickiest part (I used a old socket that was the right size to fit on the face of the spider but inside the orbital bearings.


Ralf S.
 
Thanks for the reply Ralf!
The whole outer part of the right axle is new (has droven 3000 km now), so the inner CV joint is also new. It continued to vibrate even after the new outer axle was put in. So the only thing that has not been replaced is the inner part of the axle with the CV housing on.

So I think it is the CV housing that is gone bad - if it is the CV joints that are making the vibration.
 
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