Tuning Punto 1.9 upgrades after remap?

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Tuning Punto 1.9 upgrades after remap?

Carey94

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Iv searched through all of the guides and through a lot on the forum and there seems little on possible upgrades and the route to go down for getting more power from a grande punto 1.0 after a remap has been done.

I have a 1.9 sporting, its got coil overs, grooved disks, k and n airbox and filter along with a remap taking it to 165bhp, now I'm wanting more and wanting advice on the next steps.

My first thought would be a performance clutch before anything so any extra power and torque isn't a problem, then I would think to look at a bigger turbo and possibly injectors after that?

1, I'm not sure on what turbos would be good value and a good upgrade, iv read and heard the current turbo is good for around 200bhp (is this true? can anyone shed any light)

also what injectors would people advise if it was indeed needed? along with possibly needed an uprated fuel pump id imagine dependant on the amount of power wanted

I would like to get close to 300bhp, or as close as possible, I don't think any more power would be as useable in fwd, however, I'm open to advise.

Hopefully, none of this has been in another thread etc that I haven't found on here, but if people could recommend the next upgrade paths from advice and experience id appreciate it, I have knowledge of cars and don't mind getting my hands dirty :)

I'd also like to make a guide on the next upgrades for the forum too :)

cheers fellas :)
 
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Which 1.9 do u have 8v or 16v?
What hp was it stock?
What gearbox do you have? 5spd or 6spd.

To answer your questions:
1.9 Sporting is 8v, 130 stock, and a 6 speed. The 16v didn't make it into the Punto

Iv searched through all of the guides and through a lot on the forum and there seems little on possible upgrades and the route to go down for getting more power from a grande punto 1.0 after a remap has been done.

I have a 1.9 sporting, its got coil overs, grooved disks, k and n airbox and filter along with a remap taking it to 165bhp, now I'm wanting more and wanting advice on the next steps.

My first thought would be a performance clutch before anything so any extra power and torque isn't a problem, then I would think to look at a bigger turbo and possibly injectors after that?

1, I'm not sure on what turbos would be good value and a good upgrade, iv read and heard the current turbo is good for around 200bhp (is this true? can anyone shed any light)

also what injectors would people advise if it was indeed needed? along with possibly needed an uprated fuel pump id imagine dependant on the amount of power wanted

I would like to get close to 300bhp, or as close as possible, I don't think any more power would be as useable in fwd, however, I'm open to advise.

Hopefully, none of this has been in another thread etc that I haven't found on here, but if people could recommend the next upgrade paths from advice and experience id appreciate it, I have knowledge of cars and don't mind getting my hands dirty :)

I'd also like to make a guide on the next upgrades for the forum too :)

cheers fellas :)

To the OP, At the very least, you'll need uprated intercooler, and a turbo capable of the required power, Injectors, i'm not sure. Unfortunately i'm not sure which specific part numbers you need.

As the engine is used in Vauxhalls, You should be able to get an idea of the power gains from any Astra forums, there's loads of info from people that have already tuned the knackers out of the engine. The 1.9 CTDI is apparently rather tunable, but to get the figures you're looking for, will involve spending a LOT of cash.
 
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Which 1.9 do u have 8v or 16v?
What hp was it stock?
What gearbox do you have? 5spd or 6spd.



Iv got the six speed box, im assuming it's the m32 box commonly used and shared with the astra etc.

I'm assuming it's the 16v although how would I check to be certain?

Bhp stock is factory 130bhp and its currently mapped my msl to 165bhp
 
To answer your questions:
1.9 Sporting is 8v, 130 stock, and a 6 speed.



To the OP, At the very least, you'll need uprated intercooler, and a turbo capable of the required power, Injectors, i'm not sure. Unfortunately i'm not sure which specific part numbers you need.

As the engine is used in Vauxhalls, You should be able to get an idea of the power gains from any Astra forums, there's loads of info from people that have already tuned the knackers out of the engine. The 1.9 CTDI is apparently rather tunable, but to get the figures you're looking for, will involve spending a LOT of cash.



Yeah I thought an intercooler would be needed if a bigger turbo was needed, a popular turbo coming up seems to be the t304, iv only searched briefly and not in depth as I'd rather people's knowledge first.
I'm not looking to spend lots of cash, I could live with it for a year and buy a quicker factory car and tune from there.

However iv got the bug for more, dependant on cost.

So as next upgrades would you propose first an uprated intercooler, along with a bugger turbo and remap again, and if needed possibly injectors?

I think an exhaust too would be an obvious one with the intercooler as currently the turbos are built into the manifold, so if putting in a bigger turbo wouldn't a custom manifold be needed to be able to mount the turbo? So might aswell get a fully custom exhaust?

Correct me if I'm wrong but thanks for the advice so far, confirming mostly what I believe are the next steps
 
Really want to get close to 300 bhp ? It's not out of reach if you have a (very) thick wallet. Need to tune the engine first, that for sure, than you'll need to straighten/tight everything in order to stay on the road; brakes, suspensions, chassis, almost everything needs to be adapted, never inspected a rally car in details ?? A few parts only are still from stock and they're almost un-driveable on open roads, I'm not event thinking about insurance...

Engine wise more power comes from more fuel being burnt: larger injectors, higher pressure, quite simple... That fuel needs more air: larger turbo to push more air in, quite simple as well
More air more compressed gets more hot so lose efficiency (get higher volume) so need to be more cooled; larger intercooler, larger pipes, quite simple again
And yeah, to allow even more air to flow in, porting cylinder head, install bigger valves, increase cam apperture time and lifting value; less simple and potential collision with pistons that need anyway to be replaced to withstand that extra power, together with the connecting rods and BTW the crankshaft. All that nice and expensive stuff needs of course to be well cooled and lubricated but finally You get the power on the flywheel :-D

Now it's time to pass it to the road... that's another episod with about the same scenario (actually maybe more complicated) !

Keep us up to date ! Regards, Bernie
 
Really want to get close to 300 bhp ? It's not out of reach if you have a (very) thick wallet. Need to tune the engine first, that for sure, than you'll need to straighten/tight everything in order to stay on the road; brakes, suspensions, chassis, almost everything needs to be adapted, never inspected a rally car in details ?? A few parts only are still from stock and they're almost un-driveable on open roads, I'm not event thinking about insurance...

Engine wise more power comes from more fuel being burnt: larger injectors, higher pressure, quite simple... That fuel needs more air: larger turbo to push more air in, quite simple as well
More air more compressed gets more hot so lose efficiency (get higher volume) so need to be more cooled; larger intercooler, larger pipes, quite simple again
And yeah, to allow even more air to flow in, porting cylinder head, install bigger valves, increase cam apperture time and lifting value; less simple and potential collision with pistons that need anyway to be replaced to withstand that extra power, together with the connecting rods and BTW the crankshaft. All that nice and expensive stuff needs of course to be well cooled and lubricated but finally You get the power on the flywheel :-D

Now it's time to pass it to the road... that's another episod with about the same scenario (actually maybe more complicated) !

Keep us up to date ! Regards, Bernie



Yeah cheers for the advice, id probably go a. Offer intercooler as a next step, then for a bigger turbo and custom manifold and exhaust, along with a remap and injectors if needed.

Does anyone know what the 1.9 stock engine is capable off with stock internals?
 
Yeah cheers for the advice, id probably go a. Offer intercooler as a next step, then for a bigger turbo and custom manifold and exhaust, along with a remap and injectors if needed.

Does anyone know what the 1.9 stock engine is capable off with stock internals?

Close to 200bhp, but thats stretching it on stock parts. From what i've seen on the Astra forums, to get it anywhere close to 300, you are going to need deep pockets and a friendly bank manager
 
The main problem with your approach is the step by step process: in order to get the most of each modification the ECU needs some remapping; e.g. it doesn't make sense to have a higher pressure capable turbo if the wastegate opens at the same pressure as before... So you better do all mods in one single shot, then remap !

Developing a race engine is NOT a simple task, needs a lot of engineering, testing and trials/errors/breaking !

As for the internal stock parts, the rule of thumb is 100hp per liter capacity, so agree with Brickfoot your engine should be ok with 200(ish) bhp...

Anyway, have fun with your tuning !
Regards, Bernie
 
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The main problem with your approach is the step by step process: in order to get the most of each modification the ECU needs some remapping; e.g. it doesn't make sense to have a higher pressure capable turbo if the wastegate opens at the same pressure as before... So you better do all mods in one single shot, then remap !

Developing a race engine is NOT a simple task, needs a lot of engineering, testing and trials/errors/breaking !

As for the internal stock parts, the rule of thumb is 100hp per liter capacity, so agree with Brickfoot your engine should be ok with 200(ish) bhp...

Anyway, have fun with your tuning !
Regards, Bernie

Does 100hp per litre also stand for the 1.9 16v?
 
Does 100hp per litre also stand for the 1.9 16v?



I was wanting to push it as far as I could on stock internals but relatively safe, as in as much as I could go without forging the engine, especially the amount of money it would cost in comparison to starting with a higher output car.

I'm a little gutted now haha especially being a student, forging engines isn't the most affordable things.
 
It's just a rule of thumb, haven't said it would break with 105hp/l nor it won't with 95...
In a recent past, race cars were separated into 'groups'; group 1 was the closest to stock cars, their engine was already completely rebuilt with constructor minimal tolerances, all mobile parts optimized (same weight, dynamic balancing, polished etc.). That was already costing a lot; nowadays one just have to remap the ECU and it's done !
If you have time to spend and the knowledge (or the money) you could pamper your engine the way its ancestors were treated in the past, it's all benefit for efficiency and reliability...

Regards, Bernie
 
I don't want to build a race car, I want a fast road car that can be used as a daily comfortably, i.e with reliability in mind.

As commented above I wouldn't mind and would prefer tbh to have the advice and then buy the parts needed, and then fit them all in one go, and then remap it, instead of the intercooler, injectors, remap, bigger turbo etc, seems a waste.

As well I wanted to only push the engine as far as the stock block and heads can handle, including pistons etc without forging the engine, as its only a 1.9 and the money would be better spent in a year or two on something with a higher base BHP output.

As well, does anyone have any advice on the next step turbo wise, what I should be looking for, I have a pretty good understanding of how they work etc but not deep enough yet for things like the diameter of the turbine's etc, so advice on a turbo capable of 200-300bhp respectively, under the conditions of being able to operate efficiently and not needing tons of boost (as this can cause issues at times I'm lead to believe, correct me if I'm wrong)

Once I know the right path and turbo to choose, I can then look into an FMI, along with clutches and injectors.

Speaking of injectors, does anyone have any advice? links on the next upgrade for these to achieve 300bhp tops?

I appreciate the advice so far and can only keep on going, id rather saves up to then buy all the parts and then get them fitted and tuned properly as stated, so any help along the way would be great.

P.s its mainly because I like to take things apart and put them together again, oh and the feeling of more power is addictive.

I was thinking of buying a Mazda 3 MPS in a yew or two (once insurance allows) a friend of mine has one tuned to 550bhp, (he's spent a lot on it, more than he should) and ever since then iv wanted more, the thing absolutely flew and was a sleeper, kinda why I like the GPS.

Excuse the long winded reply, I got carried away, but bear in mind I want a fast road car, but reliable, not a race car.

Thanks.
 
Reasonably affordable "fast" cars in the 80's were VW and Peugeot GTi, Fiat Abarth 125/130 TC to name a few, all of them around 120hp; nowadays people are not happy with 165hp !

I don't know about a magic receipe which would list the parts and show the how-to-bring-your-GP-to-300hp , but if you want to go a step higher, get yourself a Seat Leon Cupra or a Golf RS or a BMW M3 /M5, or bring a 2nd hand Corvette / Mustang / Camaro from the States...

Regards, Bernie
 
Reasonably affordable "fast" cars in the 80's were VW and Peugeot GTi, Fiat Abarth 125/130 TC to name a few, all of them around 120hp; nowadays people are not happy with 165hp !

I don't know about a magic receipe which would list the parts and show the how-to-bring-your-GP-to-300hp , but if you want to go a step higher, get yourself a Seat Leon Cupra or a Golf RS or a BMW M3 /M5, or bring a 2nd hand Corvette / Mustang / Camaro from the States...

Regards, Bernie

Haha Bernie, Back in the day, the likes of the Peugeot and VW GTI's were light as a feather, so 120bhp was more than enough :D

Nowadays, cars are designed with passenger safety in mind, so they are heavier than their 80's counterparts thanks to the extra metal there designed as crumple zones and reinforcement of the passenger cabin. And we have NCAP to thank for that :p
 
Aaaaahh, memories !
A few years before, the Simca 1000 Rallye II was considered as a murderer / widow maker with it's 1294cc engine full of 85 HP !!
Its little sister the Rally I was much reasonable with no less than 70 HP, just a bit more than the Renault R8 Gordini ...

Good old times ;-)
 
Reasonably affordable "fast" cars in the 80's were VW and Peugeot GTi, Fiat Abarth 125/130 TC to name a few, all of them around 120hp; nowadays people are not happy with 165hp !

I don't know about a magic receipe which would list the parts and show the how-to-bring-your-GP-to-300hp , but if you want to go a step higher, get yourself a Seat Leon Cupra or a Golf RS or a BMW M3 /M5, or bring a 2nd hand Corvette / Mustang / Camaro from the States...

Regards, Bernie



The main reason iv got a punto sporting is I like that their good locking and decent on insurance, bear in mind I'm 22 and iv had a year ban, so something quicker would vastly make my insurance higher, so iv settled with another sporting with decent performance.

As I said I'd like to get more power but not at the expense of more than the cars worth, especially as like you've said I could get a higher output car to start with, but obviously I'm in a rut because of insurance, hence wanting a bit more power.

Although my next car I'm looking at possibly the megane rs 225, they seem decent interior wise, full leather and cruise control (something I have to have now iv got it) aswell as good handling and performance but maybe in a year or two.


Cheers for all the replies, ill keep this updated with any changes get I make.

Iv got some chassis bars for up front I'm going to throw on, and next step I'll get all the brakes changed to decent grilled discs and ebc pads.

Maybe after that I'll poly bush the car to tighten things up and make it all last a bit longer.
 
Aaaaahh, memories !
A few years before, the Simca 1000 Rallye II was considered as a murderer / widow maker with it's 1294cc engine full of 85 HP !!
Its little sister the Rally I was much reasonable with no less than 70 HP, just a bit more than the Renault R8 Gordini ...

Good old times ;-)



One of the cars iv always liked used to be the Renault 5 turbo, don't know why iv always loved them. That and the love for the old cosworths, but their silly money these days.
 
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