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Old 03-02-2017   #31
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Oooops, sorry, didn't read the actual boost values on your screen shot: they seem absolutely normal, so I pull my hand off the stove !!
I digged a bit in my garage and found a brand new MAP sensor in its box, it gets the same pattern of writings as yours ; brand is EPS, made in Italy (since 1946 !) so you probably don't own a crappy chinese sensor ...

Regards, Bernie
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Old 03-02-2017   #32
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

This car is confusing me haha

So all the readings seem normal?

That same fault code comes up every time you drive it now. According to the boost gauge, it doesn't go above about 14psi now, and definitely feels like it's limited to that. Doesnt feel like it's getting anything more, although it used to pull like a train!

Not sure what else it could be.

I'm going to try and get some live graphs done on MES, see if there's anything unusual!

Thanks again for your help
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Old 03-02-2017   #33
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Don't get confused with diesel readings they are not the same.

Read again the values with the engine off (key to ON position)

fyi: map = on the manifold (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
boost = on the pipe before the manifold.
Atmosphere = on the ecu

Quote Quote:
When I drove the car, and put my foot down, the boost peaked at about 25/26psi, but boost gauge only shows 13-15psi.
Ok. 26psi overboost is way to high of course.

Which sensor was that ? MAP or Boost sensor? (they should have the same value on full throttle)
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Old 03-02-2017   #34
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Thanks for the info,

Il do what youve said when I get home shortly.

The figure was on the "Boost pressure" parameter. I will take a screenshot of the live graph on a drive later so you can see what I mean. It seemed way too high all the time to me, I didn't think it would show 840mbar at idle but I could be wrong!

Il post up the screenshots as soon as I get home.

Thanks
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Old 03-02-2017   #35
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Attached are the screenshots,

1st Screenshot- Engine Off Cold
2nd Screenshot- Engine On Cold
3rd Screenshot - Engine Off Warm
4th Screenshot - Engine On Warm.

Hope this has everything you need!

Thanks
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Old 04-02-2017   #36
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Quote Originally Posted by Stemh View Post
Attached are the screenshots,

1st Screenshot- Engine Off Cold
2nd Screenshot- Engine On Cold
3rd Screenshot - Engine Off Warm
4th Screenshot - Engine On Warm.

Hope this has everything you need!

Thanks
I have to tell you that these graphs confused me...a LOT.
MAP sensor and boost sensor have (almost) the same pressure but not the same as atmospheric pressure.
Now, this is weird and not normal. MAP and Atmospheric should be exactly the same with the engine off. (let's forget about boost sensor for a now)

Is the new MAP sensor the same part as the old/factory one?
Can you get a picture of the MAP sensor? (maybe one more pic of the old sensor too)

The only normal value in your graphs is the atmospheric pressure. (where do you live btw? what's the altitude there?)

I'm thinking that both sensors (map/boost) are wrong parts for this engine.
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Last edited by cmosfxx; 04-02-2017 at 03:21.
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Old 04-02-2017   #37
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When I got the car, I was told the map/boost sensors had been upgraded to "abarth" items due to them upping the power with different turbo/intercooler/injectors. I replaced the map sensor with the same part number as what was already in so I'm not sure if it is the right one.

I've attached pictures of both the sensors that are fitted on the car.

Do you know the part numbers of the parts I should have fitted to allow the 21ish psi it used to get?

Thanks again for your help!
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Old 04-02-2017   #38
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

That's the abarth map correct.

Just to make sure, is there any Tuning box ecu installed?(tmc etc)
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Old 04-02-2017   #39
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Hi Stem & Cmos,

sorry for the confusion with my diesel curves :-(

When talking about pressure, I guess one of you is refering to absolute while the other refers to relative (to atmosphere). For me 26 psi IF ABSOLUTE is not too much of a boost as it's a little more than 2 bars, different story if it's a RELATIVE value: that would be (approximately) like filling 3 time the cylinders compared to a naturally breathing (no turbo) engine !!
The MAP sensors measure the absolute pressure, while I guess the boost gauge start from 0 (atmospheric pressure) am I right with this ?
So when engine is off the reading from the MAP should show 1 Bar (or atmosphere) and the gauge should stay at 0.

There are different sensors over there, main difference being their range: the output signal for all varies from 0,5 to 4,5 volts, as some have a range up to 3 bars (like yours with 306 Kpa) starting from 100mBar, and other up to 4 Bars the signal at 1 Bar would be slightly different from the ECU one. If playing with that, one can fool the ECU to make it think the turbo blows less than it actually does; the ECU would then try to increase the boost pressure by moving the vanes or keeping the waste gate closed in an attempt to increase the turbo efficiency :-)
Of course that's also true the other way ...
@ Cmos : on petrol car, is the "intake pressure" taken after the throttle (depression would explain why it's so low with engine idling) and the boost between the turbo and the throttle ??

I will hook my MES and go for a ride to get the boost sensor and boost signal reading of my MAP, which is also rated to 3 Bars and post the results later on...

Regards, Bernie.
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Last edited by Bernievarian; 04-02-2017 at 13:28.
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Old 04-02-2017   #40
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Quote Originally Posted by Bernievarian View Post
@ Cmos : on petrol car, is the "intake pressure" taken after the throttle (depression would explain why it's so low with engine idling) and the boost between the turbo and the throttle ??
Yes. Since there is no throttle valve on diesel engines you only see possitive pressure values with a minimum value the atmospheric pressure.

The problem with @Stemh car is that both map & boost have a different value (lower) than atmospheric with the engine off. Which is not normal. I know some tuning boxes that could cause that to trick the ECU so it can give more boost let's wait for his reply.

If there is no such thing in his car I give up
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Old 04-02-2017   #41
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

There is no tuning box on it as far as I know,

Could it be possible that both sensors are faulty and not reading the correct values?
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Old 04-02-2017   #42
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Quote Originally Posted by Stemh View Post
There is no tuning box on it as far as I know,

Could it be possible that both sensors are faulty and not reading the correct values?
Are you SURE that both sensors are connected to factory cables?

(that's a 500 but it's the same anyway)
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Old 04-02-2017   #43
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

21ish PSI that stem used to get on the pressure gauge (about 1,6 Bar) seems quite ok to me for a stock engine, isn't it ? Just checked my 1.3 mjt and max boost was 2,55 (@ MAP), which is 20ish PSI @ pressure gauge ; my MJT is free of any MOD !
BTW the electric signal from my MAP varies from 1,52 (atm press) to 4,09 volts @ full boost and it's a 3 Bar range... (unmodified).
I like the idea of installing a higher range MAP (on a Diesel engine) or even use a resistor divider to lower the signal to fool the ECU so it believes the boost pressure is lower than it really is and adjust the vanes accordingly, but I'm not sure the injected fuel would then be enough ... unless playing also with the Common Rail pressure sensor ??

Any thoughts about this Cmos ?

Regards, Bernie
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Last edited by Bernievarian; 04-02-2017 at 16:13. Reason: typo
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Old 04-02-2017   #44
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Quote Originally Posted by Bernievarian View Post
21ish PSI that stem used to get on the pressure gauge (about 1,6 Bar) seems quite ok to me for a stock engine, isn't it ? Just checked my 1.3 mjt and max boost was 2,55 (@ MAP), which is 20ish PSI @ pressure gauge ; my MJT is free of any MOD !
BTW the electric signal from my MAP varies from 1,52 (atm press) to 4,09 volts @ full boost and it's a 3 Bar range... (unmodified).
I like the idea of installing a higher range MAP (on a Diesel engine) or even use a resistor divider to lower the signal to fool the ECU so it believes the boost pressure is lower than it really is and adjust the vanes accordingly, but I'm not sure the injected fuel would then be enough ... unless playing also with the Common Rail pressure sensor ??

Any thoughts about this Cmos ?

Regards, Bernie
Nooope. Don't do that. Stay away from that kind of stuff (resistors/boxes etc).

Custom map (tuning) is the only reliable way.

Out of curiosity, what's the pressure values on your sensors (atm,map,boost) with the engine off ? (key on)
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Old 04-02-2017   #45
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Re: Grande Punto 1.4 T Jet problems! p2227 fault code

Quote Originally Posted by cmosfxx View Post
That's the abarth map correct.

Just to make sure, is there any Tuning box ecu installed?(tmc etc)
Definitely no tuning box on it, all the sensor wiring goes straight back into the original loom.

I've found the old map sensor, going to try putting that back in, see if I get any different values. Worth a try! Haha
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