Hope some1 can please give me some sort of idea what's wrong with my poor wee car lol. ..

Was driving today on dual carriageway at 70 and steering started to feel kind of loose, like I was being blown about by the the wind, so carried on...

Bit more driving and didn't feel all that great, not very responsive steering wise... as I pulled on to my driveway, I turned steering fully left to reverse, heard a pop in steering column and now the steering wheel is behaving as if disconnected from the wheels if that makes sense??

The steering wheel is can turn either direction and not stopping, but is making like a knocking noise ever say quarter turn or so, and can see it is knocking the wheels...

Not sure if this makes any sense to you all but if it does please help lol

first check for a broken spring

Andy In A Grande said:

Hope some1 can please give me some sort of idea what's wrong with my poor wee car lol. ..

Was driving today on dual carriageway at 70 and steering started to feel kind of loose, like I was being blown about by the the wind, so carried on...

Bit more driving and didn't feel all that great, not very responsive steering wise... as I pulled on to my driveway, I turned steering fully left to reverse, heard a pop in steering column and now the steering wheel is behaving as if disconnected from the wheels if that makes sense??

The steering wheel is can turn either direction and not stopping, but is making like a knocking noise ever say quarter turn or so, and can see it is knocking the wheels...

Not sure if this makes any sense to you all but if it does please help lol

Click to expand...

That sounds very bad indeed! Am I right in thinking that you can now turn the wheel an infinite number of turns in either direction and nothing happens at the car's front wheels? If so, it sounds like a major mechanical failure - at a guess either the universal joint in the bottom of the column or the pinion on the steering rack have broken up.

Yes the wheel will continue to spin around in either direction for as long as I am willing to spin it... with an occasional kinda knocking noise...

My initial worry was that I would be looking at a costly steering column, but sounds like even more than possibly then??

[ame]https://youtu.be/KDLRSjqGhS0[/ame]

[ame]https://youtu.be/9hd9_L5uaYY[/ame]


The links are a couple short videos of the steering column, the 'lack of movement' when turning the wheel and knocking noise that accompanies this lol...

I'm hoping this doesn't turn out to be a big expensive job lol I've just paid to have the windows tinted yesterday, and now this lol

Does look like the steering column has broken.

You're lucky it happened on the drive and not on the motorway.

I'd look to find a replacement Asap without completely stripping it down to find the break id not want to hazard a guess at what you do or don't need to replace.

That's exactly what I said to my friend last night, we were up and down motorway all day yesterday, getting tints done and running messages etc ?? I feel dain lucky lol...

I am waiting to hear back from my brother in law when he can come and look over it (he the only mechanic I let touch her lol)

Was thinking I possibly am aswell to start scouting around to get a reasonable price steering column, and just hope that it won't need anything else (im not very mechanically intelligent I'm afraid lol)...
andymonty I have had a look at the springs this morning, and they look to be OK and intact (although per a previous post I've made, planning on changing them anyway lol, obviously that's on hold now too!!)

OK so have just had a quick scout on 'the bay' for a replacement steering column, the price differences can be substantial, so if it is this part I need, can people please give opinion...

I can get a 'used' steering column for around 100 notes (give or take) but that would obviously have no warranty, and I would perhaps worry that it would be just as liable to fall victim of the same fault??

OR

I can get a reconditioned unit (and return my broken 1 to the seller) for a little over 200 (about 230 seems average) but these also apparently come with a lifetime guarantee. ..

I am a believer in the old saying, buy cheap, buy twice. But at the same time I am Scottish so I have deep pockets with short arms!!
Personally, I am inclined to spend the extra for the recon version with a lifetime warranty, but would like opinions...

Oh and apparently the recon units are all calibrated and ready to install etc...

The video looks like the pinch bolt has come loose, splined shaft is turning inside the joint.

If this was the case, would I still be looking at a new column?? Or would it mean a easier or bigger problem to fix??

Wow this is epic fail. You are a very lucky man.

digger58 said:

The video looks like the pinch bolt has come loose, splined shaft is turning inside the joint.

Click to expand...

I agree. I don't think this is a problem with the electric power steering unit as such, it looks like a pinch bolt has come out / come loose from a joint in the column somewhere above the electric power steering unit, but the first video is too close-up for me to see exactly whereabouts in the column it is. Either way, the OP is quite lucky to be alive!

The question now, is why has it happened? If the unit has not been disturbed during the life of the car, I think it would warrant contacting the DVSA's Vehicle Safety Defect team:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

If it were my car, there is NO WAY I would simply tighten up whatever had slipped and go on my merry way! I'd want to know exactly why it had failed. Obviously, if it's down to some incompetent maintenance in the past, that's a different matter, but if it is something that could happen to any GP, a recall would be needed.

That aside, I think rotating the wheel too far will have damaged the connectors for the airbag and steering wheel controls now, so the whole lot is going to have to be stripped and inspected. Getting the wheel off and the airbag out is a bit of a pain, but there's a good "how-to" in the guides section on replacing the electric power steering unit.

OK so avocet could this be relevant:

It is an 08 gp, my mum purchased the car in 09 at some point at a very good price, the reason was it was a cat d write off (im sure that's what I was told, will check this and confirm!!)

I was also told that the category it was was simply a cosmetic 1, and the electrically and mechanically it was sound, which it has been since my mum owned it really, just odd wee niggles, drop links etc she has needed to do on it... anything I have needed done on it is posted on this forum somewhere lol as I've always came here as 1st port of call!! Lifesavers here...

Anyway, what I'm wondering, is at the point when whatever accident happened back in 08/09 could that have caused this and that it's taken all this time to just go kaput??

Certainly if not and it seems to be a problem that should be reported as possible recall, then I will certainly report it, I was certainly lucky that it gave in when it did and not bombing down the motorway!!

I certainly feel very lucky this morning!!

To confirm it was indeed a category d write off, and this category is cosmetic damage only, meaning mechanics and electrics should all be fine, and before being allowed back on road was apparently inspected top to toe by both a fiat dealership, and an independent aswell...

My mum has always said she lives the car, steering has always felt fine to her, and very light...
My experience until recently has been the same (although I am inexperienced lol I have only had my licence 2 n half years, and this is only my second car)

Basically I don't think that it will have anything to do with what's just happened to my wee baby, but figure if I give u all the info I know, you guys can do the same and I can get her back on the road where she belongs lol

Yes, it might be significant. A "Cat D" write-off just means that the cost of repairs to insurance standards (i.e. using all-genuine, brand new parts and replacing absolutely everything that is damaged or even questionable) would exceed the market value of the car. (or be so close as to make it uneconomical to repair). There's nothing illegal about repairing a Cat D write-off and putting it back on the road.

More here:

http://www.rac.co.uk/community/blog/rac-blog/july-2013/what-is-a-category-d-car-insurance-write-off

However, you'd neeed to know what the damage was that caused it to be written off. If it had a light knock, but just enough to set off the driver's airbag, then yes, it could be relevant to the failure you've just experienced. Whoever replaced the airbag might have disturbed the steering column and forgotten to tighten up the clamp bolt. With the GP's power steering system, the loads on the top half of the column are always very small - just enough to give the power steering motor (which is lower down the column just above your feet) a signal as to which way to turn and how much to assist. For that reason, if the car has always been driven gently, with no heaving on the steering wheel, it would probably work fine for quite a while until it finally fretted away the splines (or whatever transmits the torque) and then let go. Certainly, Fiat UK would use that as an excuse not to do a recall (and if it IS down to a poor bit of repair) they'd be well entitled to do so! Given the amount of time the GP has been in production, if there was an inherent design fault, I guess we'd probably have heard of it by now.

So the short answer is "yes, it MIGHT have been relevant"! You'd need to fidn out what the damage was.

Incidentally, you can see every MOT the car has ever had (including failure points and advisories) on here:

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

So you might get a clue as to if it has ever had any steering work done.

After speaking with my mum, she said that to her knowledge the air bags didn't weren't deployed in whatever accident had happened, however since I've owned it the airbag light has always been on, my mum says she is sure this is the case while she had the car aswell... not sure who told her the air bags weren't deployed but she was definitely told this...

Still waiting to hear back from my brother in law when he can come over and look at it, but when I'm off tomorow think I will get the how to guide up an start stripping the trim, remove steering wheel etc and if I can get any relevant pics or video will upload them here...

Thanks a bunch guys, people on here have been awesomely helpful... when I have some spare cash, will definitely be making a donation in the direction of fiat forum!!

*** checked Mot history on dvla site as you suggested, back in 2013 was noted as an advisory 'play in steering rack', now I'm sure my mum has never had any work done on the steering rack, ever (closest she has got in drop links lol) however it has not been mentioned in any mot since??

I've felt myself like there has been a bit of play there, but as mentioned relatively new driver, and I thought perhaps it was just me cos the steering was so light anyway, especially compared to my partners zafira I drive from time to time and the old banger clio I owned before...

I've also noticed when stationary than if I turned the steering wheel in either direction, I would get a slight knocking noise, only a single knock on each side...

Sorry probably should have mentioned ALL of this earlier on... just want to get to the bottom of this lol

There was a recall long ago for that issue.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/rec...3340878578580257282004BFDA0&freeText=Blank&tx

All they did was to check and/or torque to spec these bolts.

For safety that steering needs to be taken out and inspected, the recall seems to be for build dates between 01/06/2006 and 31/07/2006. I would still take it all out and examine it, I have an 08 GP, I will be having a look at it today!. It sounds as though it is NOT a splined shaft, just a shaft with a flat on it to allow a pinch bolt through, can anybody confirm? This is a most serious issue and needs to be looked at straight away, I would contact previous seller etc and also VOSA just to be on the safe side. Was the vehicle inspected after the repairs by anybody qualified? I wonder was the steering rack replaced at any stage?

Previous seller to me was my mum, she has never had any work done on any aspect of the steering, that would be since 2009 (end of)... however she got an advisory on 2013 mot (around nov) for play in the steering, another mechanic since said 'it's fine' and nothing has been done since, but hasn't shown up on both mot since, with no advisory notes being made in 14 or 15!!


But as for steering need to come out and inspected, that's exactly what I'm waiting for my brother in law to come and do...

It definitely is a worrying situation, as it just happened, quite quickly and suddenly, with no real warning it was going to happen... even now no warning lights on the dash or anything

Also you mentioned contacting VOSA, but why would I contact them... as in what information would they need or want from me? I'm assuming it would just be to report the fault to them for records sake??

I wonder if the "play in the steering rack" picked up by the earlier MOT was actually play in that joint all along? As far as I'm aware, the racks are pretty durable. Ours has over 100k on it now and is 10 years old, but has no play in it at all. I don't know if racks are a common replacement item on the Punto? My guess is that they over-engineered it somewhat because unlike a conventional power steering system, the GP's rack bar and pinion takes a lot more load than a conventional assisted rack.

Getting the steering wheel off is a bit frustrating. You need to punch a small screwdriver through two small dimples moulded into the back of the wheel. It'll be interesting to see if yours have already been punched through, because that would suggest that the wheel (or at least the airbag) has been off at some poit in the car's life. Once you've punched through, you need to "feel" for a couple of wire springs (about coathanger gauge) and push them inwards to release the horn push and airbag assembly. WHATEVER YOU DO, disconnect the battery for a good half hour beforehand to make sure the airbag trigger (if still working) has completely discharged. It would be a shame to cheat death on the motorway as your steering fails, only to get your head blown off by a deploying airbag!

Without removing the wheel though, you can take the column shround off and the plastic kick panel under the column. With those two off, there's a good chance you'll see the problem anyway.

Inside the steering wheel is a little plastic "cassette" that contains a sort of ribbon cable. It's there to carry the signal to the airbag , horn and radio controls. It winds and unwinds itself as you turn the wheel. Now that the wheel has been turned "too far", it might have snapped or at least had the connecors pulled off, so that will need to be sorted.