Technical "Seized" engine on Fiat Punto 1.2

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Technical "Seized" engine on Fiat Punto 1.2

robjfoster

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Hi everyone,

I have recently joined the forum after having previously browsed the useful information found here for numerous smaller problems.

I have a 08 plate Fiat Grande Punto (Dynamic) 1.2 petrol that has been largely non-problematic up until a week ago.

For several months it has slight difficult starting (not every time) but would always do so within 2-3 seconds or with a bit of using the accelerator.

Additionally it has on 2-3 occasions when cold made a relatively high pitched noise when running (sounds like an F1 car) that would increase in frequency with speed and go away after several minutes. It would not happen everytime and there seemed to be no real pattern. It sounded like a slipping belt.

A week ago it just would not start. Battery voltage was on the low side so removed it and charged it with an optimate charger. Despite "fully" charged the voltage was only 12.3v so I replaced it. Changed the plugs which looked ok.

It still would not start even when jumping it.

It was towed to a local halfords for diagnostics (first mistake).

They said the started motor was burnt out which may have been me by repeatedly trying to start it. This has been replaced after which they ran diagnostics.

The alternator is fine but they say the oil pump has gone and now the engine is seized. They have quoted £2000 for fitting a new one.

The car would turn over, just not start so now having a seized engine sounds a little odd to me.

I am not overly keen on having a new engine fitted that is worth about the same as the car so was wondering if anyone had any ideas that could be helpful?

Since the tow I have not seen the car so am going later today to get all the details and pay up before trying to get it to another garage for a second opinion and who could potentially fit a second hand engine (if needed) as Halfords won't.

I have at no point had any warning lights for low oil or low pressure.

I had thought about the cam belt but would have thought this would have shown up with loss of compression?

Thanks in advance.

Rob
 
The high pitched noise is more than likely the auxilary belt which is quite common.

The "not being able to start" has nothing to do with a seizure if it was turning over.
Even with a failed oil pump, it should still start, how long it would run is another matter.

Personally, id say that if the oil pump has failed, causing a seizure, then you probably would have noticed something at least..

If the oil warning light didn't work (which i've seen before), then you would get no warning lights, however, the engine would generally make a hell of a din before seizing completely and if travelling at any sort of speed, probably destroy it's self in the process.

The first thing i'd do is nip down to Halfords and see why they say that the engine has seized.
It wasn't seized when you left it, it just wouldn't fire, and that's a point i'd be arguing about.

Then i'd have it towed away and take it to someone you trust who is not going to fleece you.
 
I'd agree with keat63 a seized engine wouldn't even turn over (blown a head gasket and seiezed it once before). If can get access to multiecu scan may have a code that is stored to start looking at. I had a similar problem with a focus which turned out the injector seals needed changing (was diesel not petrol). New seals and egr valve and all was good.

What happens is you put your foot on the acceleration pedal on start up it's throwing petrol through the system more and more. This can flood the cylinders which in turn won't work. Maybe worth a look
 
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Thank you both for your replies.

I was thinking it all sounded a bit odd. I had no warning lights, no persistent odd engine noises, just the occasional high pitched whine which as you mention does sound like a belt.

Popped in to Halfords to get a bit more information. Essentially from the sounds of it not a lot of diagnostic work has gone on. They say the cam belt is fine but have not checked compression. Apparently the alternator is also good but they have not removed it or managed to fire up the engine to check it.

All they said is that when trying to turn it over there is resistance suggesting it is partially seized.

Spoke to a small independent garage who is planning to get it towed in the next few days to give it a proper look over so should get a bit more reliable information then. Fingers crossed it is a cam belt problem; either snapped or slipped!
 
If cam belt snapped then could be looking at a new engine (less the engine is fire which should be fine just need belt I think). Have let us know what happens
 
Just to add weight to the numbers - sounds like you're being fed a line here. Wait to see what your specialist says. First Halfrauds said it was seized, then they said "partially seized"... doesn't sound plausible to me. Agree with Keats. If oil pump goes, you get lights and then a hell of a racket and then they seize, but it takes a while. Worth putting a socket on the bottom pulley nut and trying to turn the engine over by hand to see what it feels like.
 
*seized alternator,is my guess,


id remove the alt belt & then see if it turns over,

exactly my thought too.

I'd put a sizable amount on it not being the engine itself siezed. More like the alternator or timing belt tensioner going on the posts below.

It could easily be diagnosed in about 15-20 minutes by putting a socket on the crank pulley and trying to turn it by hand, if that doesn't work, alt belt off and try again, if that doesn't work, cambelt cover off, (and assuming the belt is still there an intact...if not, you've found the problem) belt tensioner off and try again by hand (the joys of a safe engine :D).

If the bottom then turns, put a spanner on the cam at the top and turn that too, if everything moves, and i'm 99% sure it will, then the problem is external and basically what you just removed to allow it to turn.

Basically, any decent garage with a ramp will have it diagnosed (and probably fixed) in under an hours labour.
 
My guess is tensioner.

If oil changes neglected, cam can get tight, which can cause belt to jump or break.

60hp engine is safe, but 69hp is not. At this age, which has it got? Whatever, get a sensible person to diagnose as described above, then see what actually is wrong. Good luck.
 
It is the 60bhp non-interference engine.

The car was towed last night to a independent garage. The top of the engine was removed and unfortunately it appears the engine is seized. It cannot be turned forwards and can just about go backwards with a bar.

Cam belt is attached and apparently not a problem.

The alternator belt turns when trying to start the engine but has not been tested further.

It has been suggested that rather than embarking on a engine rebuild with unknown costs that it would be better to source a new engine.

As I have never been in this situation previously does anyone have a reliable source. He recommended findapart.com and breakeryard.com. There are lots on ebay which come with the inherent risk of ebay! Also could I ask a question that may be deemed stupid? A lot of the engines are listed as either cam or non-cam type or compatible with mk3 or not or ones that are suitable for a mk3 model with or mk3 without aircon. Any help in helping decipher which type of engine to go for would be greatly appreciated! I can't find anything about what mark 2 or 3 my car is in the provided documentation. It does have air con (although it no longer works) for what it is worth.

The car is an 08 1.2l grande punto dynamic 60bhp.

Might be a stupid suggestion but could a failed gearbox cause issues such as this?

Many thanks
 
Oh that's sh*t look Rob.

Motorhog.co.uk might have something
 
Oh that's sh*t look Rob.

Motorhog.co.uk might have something

Hi,

1st try and figure out WHY it's gone.., ;) - these engines are generally NOT regarded as "fragile"

compromised cooling.?? - you could also cook the new engine..,:eek:

IF it's still the old-style 60 hp, then an engine from a punto mk2/b , or panda would be a sound buy..,

plenty of MOT failure vehicles still around - then you can actually see / hear it running, and have an emissions readout too..!!;)


Charlie - Oxford
 
It is the 60bhp non-interference engine.

The car was towed last night to a independent garage. The top of the engine was removed and unfortunately it appears the engine is seized. It cannot be turned forwards and can just about go backwards with a bar.

Cam belt is attached and apparently not a problem.

The alternator belt turns when trying to start the engine but has not been tested further.

It has been suggested that rather than embarking on a engine rebuild with unknown costs that it would be better to source a new engine.

As I have never been in this situation previously does anyone have a reliable source. He recommended findapart.com and breakeryard.com. There are lots on ebay which come with the inherent risk of ebay! Also could I ask a question that may be deemed stupid? A lot of the engines are listed as either cam or non-cam type or compatible with mk3 or not or ones that are suitable for a mk3 model with or mk3 without aircon. Any help in helping decipher which type of engine to go for would be greatly appreciated! I can't find anything about what mark 2 or 3 my car is in the provided documentation. It does have air con (although it no longer works) for what it is worth.

The car is an 08 1.2l grande punto dynamic 60bhp.

Might be a stupid suggestion but could a failed gearbox cause issues such as this?

Many thanks

If it's a Grande Punto, then it would be a 65 bhp 1.2, not the 60 bhp as used in the mk2 or the 69 bhp as used in the 500. Visually, the 1.2 Grande Punto engine, as installed, looks identical to the 1.4 8v engine.
 
Apologies it is the 48kw engine which I think equates to 65bhp or there abouts.

Engine no is 4284777 if that helps?
 
Try a local scrap yard for new engine. Will get a warranty more than likely. Also don't forget let the dvla know new engine number and insurance as they will be registered to the car come off
 
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