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Technical "Seized" engine on Fiat Punto 1.2

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Technical "Seized" engine on Fiat Punto 1.2

The 1.2 is 65bhp in the grande and is a fire l4 engine (usually non interference be a fire engine type). I got told the easiest way finding out if interference is by the oil cap. A screw cap is interference engine and the push rubber cap (like mk2 punto) is non interference

Puntofan1: by interference he means that if the cam belt snaps it will take out the valves an pistons on the engine (rebuild) and non interference is when the belt snaps but no damage is done to the engine just need new belt unusually an all is good.
 
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cobalt01 said:
The 1.2 is 65bhp in the grande and is a fire l4 engine (usually non interference). I got told the easiest way finding out if interference is by the oil cap. A screw cap is interference engine and the push rubber cap (like mk2 punto) is non interference
Click to expand...

thanks - fairly common question in panda section too,

not a really clear cut thing:eek:

Charlie
 
cobalt01 said:
The 1.2 is 65bhp in the grande and is a fire l4 engine (usually non interference be a fire engine type). I got told the easiest way finding out if interference is by the oil cap. A screw cap is interference engine and the push rubber cap (like mk2 punto) is non interference

Puntofan1: by interference he means that if the cam belt snaps it will take out the valves an pistons on the engine (rebuild) and non interference is when the belt snaps but no damage is done to the engine just need new belt unusually an all is good.
Click to expand...

I see! I'd best just hope the cambelt never snaps on my 1.4 8v!
 
"No the evo engine not the eco punto (evo fire engine has screw oil cap older safe fire engines were rubber bung)"

This was taken from https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=358596 and Andy Monty was person who said it (knows what he is talking about).

So maybe all gp's are interference (look at oil cap) but I got my belt done when got car with water pump (1.4 8v 2009)

Puntofan01: not sure if you are aware but fiat updated their interval for the cam belt being changed. It's now every 4 years recommended not what states in the book. I went about service plan an they asked me said was only 5 years old (this was last July) said doesn't matter its now every 4 years they recommend cam belt doing :-(

Hope this helps
 
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cobalt01 said:
"No the evo engine not the eco punto (evo fire engine has screw oil cap older safe fire engines were rubber bung)"

This was taken from https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=358596 and Andy Monty was person who said it (knows what he is talking about).

So maybe all gp's are interference (look at oil cap) but I got my belt done when got car with water pump (1.4 8v 2009)

Puntofan01: not sure if you are aware but fiat updated their interval for the cam belt being changed. It's now every 4 years recommended not what states in the book. I went about service plan an they asked me said was only 5 years old (this was last July) said doesn't matter its now every 4 years they recommend cam belt doing :-(

Hope this helps
Click to expand...

Mine is 7 years old with 52k on the clock. I didn't know Fiat had changed the cambelt intervals, but I got it changed when it went for its mot and full service in march as a precaution, lol!
 
Both cam an auxiliary belt 4 years noe still not done my auxiliary belt due to if goes can easily be changed and no damage far as I'm aware :)
 
Just to confuse the issue further, my Panda engine is 60hp, screw oil cap, non-interference. The oil cap went screw type with Euro4 emissions I think. Then the later 69hp also had screw cap.

Engine "seized" could be bent valves. If valve clearances can be checked bent ones will be way too big. If cambelt is removed, then the crank placed mid position, so all pistons are halfway up the bores, (straightened coat hanger down the plughole can help find top bottom and middle of the piston stroke), the cam can be rotated separately to check clearances and to test if cam rotates freely. All without removing the head.

If an interference engine, may not have timing marks, so would need the tools to align properly afterwards. (I've got some, but I don't know if I'm close to the OP!)
 
robjfoster said:
It is the 60bhp non-interference engine.

The car was towed last night to a independent garage. The top of the engine was removed and unfortunately it appears the engine is seized. It cannot be turned forwards and can just about go backwards with a bar.

Cam belt is attached and apparently not a problem.

The alternator belt turns when trying to start the engine but has not been tested further.

It has been suggested that rather than embarking on a engine rebuild with unknown costs that it would be better to source a new engine.

As I have never been in this situation previously does anyone have a reliable source. He recommended findapart.com and breakeryard.com. There are lots on ebay which come with the inherent risk of ebay! Also could I ask a question that may be deemed stupid? A lot of the engines are listed as either cam or non-cam type or compatible with mk3 or not or ones that are suitable for a mk3 model with or mk3 without aircon. Any help in helping decipher which type of engine to go for would be greatly appreciated! I can't find anything about what mark 2 or 3 my car is in the provided documentation. It does have air con (although it no longer works) for what it is worth.

The car is an 08 1.2l grande punto dynamic 60bhp.

Might be a stupid suggestion but could a failed gearbox cause issues such as this?

Many thanks
Click to expand...

i'm genuinely shocked by that.

These engines are tough, tough buggers and i don't think i've ever heard of a bottom end 8v Fiat engine "Seizing".

Try and turn the engine over by hand with the clutch in just to confirm there is no drag on the gearbox side before anything else happens, in fact it might be wise just to get the box off and turn the engine so everything at that flywheel end can be inspected too.

I find it unusual that the engine doesn't move one way but (almost) wants to another. Whether you turn an engine forwards or backwards, the pistons are still just going up and down so if it's siezed one way, it should be siezed the other way too but it appears that isn't the case.
 
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yeah that ^^

Also make sure the starter is not stuck on the flywheel gear. Actually... remove everything... gearbox, starter, aux belt, spark plugs... and check again.
 
Puntofan01: not sure if this is right but looks it
 

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Bit more info:
Apologies it goes forwards very slowly but will not go back when using a strongbar to turn it.

Will not turn with the clutch in.

Alt belt is off.

He still feels it is just the engine seized and although I had toyed with scrapping it I am going to get it running again. As it is likely to be needing a new engine he is going to remove everything and remove it for an inspection out of the car so hopefully rule out problems with the flywheel.

If it is still buggered I will be scouring the internet for a replacement!
 
Interesting. When you press the clutch in, you push the back of the crankshaft towards the front of the car. Pretty much all cars, I think, (not that I'm familiar with the insides of this engine) have a "thrust bearing" arrangement that resists this. Without it, as the crank tried to move forwards, all the pistons would try to run crooked in their bores and it would, indeed, display a tendencey to seize up. I wonder if you've just got a failed thrust bearing?
 
Get the cam cover off and check the valve clearances. That will give a good guide as to whether any valves are bent.

From the above, drop the sump off. This will involve much tugging and swearing, the sealant used by Fiat appears to be a serious industrial adhesive. A sharp blade around the seal face can help. Sump needs to drop off vertically, no twisting, as the oil pick up is close and easily damaged. With sump off, state of crank and thrust bearings can be seen.
 
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