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Old 14-04-2014   #46
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Car's had the gearbox taken off tonight!

Diff appears to be the problem!

So let us hear what the gearbox specialist has to say.

Will update again soon.

Jon
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Old 15-04-2014   #47
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

I say quaife lsd hybrid and a remap or just dont buy it????
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Old 15-04-2014   #48
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C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Quaife or nothing!
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Old 16-04-2014   #49
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Quote Originally Posted by Mjet220 View Post
I say quaife lsd hybrid and a remap or just dont buy it????
Good idea, but can it really be justified on that type of car? I have a Quaife on my Alfa and it set me back 700GBP prior to fitting!!! Also unless you are driving the car hard (as in 100% throttle allot of the time) you wouldn't really be gaining much from the LSD other than traction from the line in the wet.

Something worth considering, the Alfa Romeo Q2 LSD was fitted to 147 and GT cars, some of which were the 1.9 16V Diesels. This differential is slightly different in application but also results in very similar performance to the Quaife units, and its less than half the price to buy!!! I would hazard a guess that it's likely to fit in a Fiat 5 speed box with some research into which Fiat/Alfa diesel gearboxes are cross over.

On the DMF front, these do wear because they have moving parts that allow each face of the flywheel to move a little in order to smooth out the engagement of drive (think tension springs in a turntable). Some use lubricant for the moving parts but this lubricant is not refreshed during the life of the part, so as this dries up the parts wear. These springs compress/decompress every time you lift the clutch when in gear and apply throttle. If you were to count how many times this action is repeated in a 2-4year driving cycle, you get an idea as to why they will fail. Add to that aggressive gear changes and heavy right foot and the lifespan will be reduced still.

There are some Fiat/Alfa parts/flywheels that are also cross-over that would allow a solid flywheel to be fitted, which are more robust but you would loose the refinement by doing so and are likely to end up with a more jerky pull from the car in the lower gears and from a standing start. For example the Alfa Romeo 155 16V Twinspark flywheel is a direct fit to the 1.9 JTDm 16V engines as used in the 147 and GT models. I know of a few cars that have been converted to solid flywheels in this way.

Humour
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Last edited by Humour; 16-04-2014 at 17:26.
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Old 16-04-2014   #50
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Quote Originally Posted by Humour View Post
Good idea, but can it really be justified on that type of car? I have a Quaife on my Alfa and it set me back 700GBP prior to fitting!!! Also unless you are driving the car hard (as in 100% throttle allot of the time) you wouldn't really be gaining much from the LSD other than traction from the line in the wet.

Something worth considering, the Alfa Romeo Q2 LSD was fitted to 147 and GT cars, some of which were the 1.9 16V Diesels. This differential is slightly different in application but also results in very similar performance to the Quaife units, and its less than half the price to buy!!! I would hazard a guess that it's likely to fit in a Fiat 5 speed box with some research into which Fiat/Alfa diesel gearboxes are cross over.

On the DMF front, these do wear because they have moving parts that allow each face of the flywheel to move a little in order to smooth out the engagement of drive (think tension springs in a turntable). Some use lubricant for the moving parts but this lubricant is not refreshed during the life of the part, so as this dries up the parts wear. These springs compress/decompress every time you lift the clutch when in gear and apply throttle. If you were to count how many times this action is repeated in a 2-4year driving cycle, you get an idea as to why they will fail. Add to that aggressive gear changes and heavy right foot and the lifespan will be reduced still.

There are some Fiat/Alfa parts/flywheels that are also cross-over that would allow a solid flywheel to be fitted, which are more robust but you would loose the refinement by doing so and are likely to end up with a more jerky pull from the car in the lower gears and from a standing start. For example the Alfa Romeo 155 16V Twinspark flywheel is a direct fit to the 1.9 JTDm 16V engines as used in the 147 and GT models. I know of a few cars that have been converted to solid flywheels in this way.

Humour
No a lsd isnt justifiable in these cars, they are terrible it will only break again lol if i was ever to fit would it would only be to a fwd hot hatch pushing 240+ something like a cupra r to actually benefit

Dmf are fitted for people that cant drive, ive never noticed any difference in the mondeo, if you get judder your doing it wrong ha
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Old 16-04-2014   #51
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C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

To be honest I've never know cars with less torque steer than fiats due the equal length drive shaft set up, fantastic idea,
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Old 16-04-2014   #52
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

I thought it was quite noticable with 250lbft but not bad standard
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Old 16-04-2014   #53
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C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Bravo has 435nm punto had 355nm and goes straight as a die
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Old 16-04-2014   #54
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Heard back from gearbox place today........... Its going to require a recon box as sixth gear bearing went, damaged casing and well totally ruined box... Above our budget, what about second hand??
Has anyone been successful with a second hand box before??

What could be checked on the donor car if the cars still complete and running?? However cannot be run on any road surface due to rear end damage? Are there things that can be checked to see if all's in order??
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Old 16-04-2014   #55
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Jack up a wheel and run it through all gears and listen, just can't check it under load
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Old 16-04-2014   #56
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Yep, that's what I was thinking, the under load thing bothers me, but beggars can't be choosers, I suppose that if theres anything really bad, that'll show up in that test?
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Old 16-04-2014   #57
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Bearing noise should show up, also get to check the synchro condition, but these boxes do change stiff when cold,
Or just try to light the tyres through all the gears on a hard surface lol
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Old 16-04-2014   #58
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C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

thinking about it if your good with two feet you could actually load it up with the brakes and wheel jacked up. . .
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Old 17-04-2014   #59
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

That might actually be a good idea! Thanks.

If it IS a good gearbox, then.1st thing to do is to drain oil - flush if there is a gearbox flush available? And to refil it with top quality oil, any recommendations??
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Old 17-04-2014   #60
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Re: C544 6 Speed Gearbox....

Quote Originally Posted by Jonfiat View Post
That might actually be a good idea! Thanks.

If it IS a good gearbox, then.1st thing to do is to drain oil - flush if there is a gearbox flush available? And to refil it with top quality oil, any recommendations??
Just drain and refill, unless some milk shake looking stuff comes out, but I doubt it
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