Most Easterly Pandas said:

They're mental, a friend has one. The on I had was only a poverty spec 1.2 pop, but loved every min of the 2500 miles I done in it.

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There is a 2012 fiat 500 abarth 595 at a dealership 100yards up the road from me for £12k which I keep thinking I should really go have a look at/buy

But if I drive it I'll want it and then driving 50miles a day to work and back might seriously effect my fuel economy compared to the 1.3 multijet

Could try to convince missus we need a 3rd car :idea:

Although the 500s I've driven in the past I've found to be a bit wobbly compared to other cars like ford and our mini still I imagine the abarth is very good and our hgt mjt handled extremely well

Alsatian1 said:

Yes you should, my point is however that the less information the steering gives you the less warning you have when the traction limit is reached. The GP's steering is one of the numbest set ups I've ever driven despite being quick and direct. Please don't take that as me saying I hated the car, I loved it but it was one of the few negatives I found with the car. But if you prefer light steering thats your opinion and it does make parking easier.

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A good PAS system should be light enough to make the car handy round town and in car parks but communicative enough to tell you what's happening where rubber meets tarmac. Not only were the Fords I've had extremely accurate they also talked to the driver, if the driver was listening that is. If there is a slight loss of grip at the front you should be able to feel the subtleties of that grip as it changes and that way you can make small adjustments as you go. Otherwise you'll find yourself having to make large adjustments which unsettle the suspension and makes it more likely you'll lose control.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Out of interest have you driven a 500? To say they stick light poop to a scoop is an understatement. Was really impressed myself.

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I must admit I haven't, but I recently spoke to a car hire delivery driver who was in one of the new 500S models and he said it held the road well but was a bit sluggish. Well it was a 1.2.

But, I was throwing some papers out tonight and in the Sunday Times Driving section from a few weeks ago were a number of "Top 10s".

In the City Cars section were the following:

No. 4:
Ford Ka.......Ford's engineers, it is said, were appalled by the FIAT's suspension, so they developed their own, which is why the Ka's ride and handling are far superior to the 500's.

But its looks scarcely dilate the pupils, and parked alongside the FIAT it would almost vanish. Even so, it's worth condidering for the suspension alone.

No. 3:
FIAT Panda...It's not entirely sensible, especially if you pay extra for the wonderful-sounding 0.9-litre two cylinder turbo engine, but its design is thoroughly functional......

No. 2:
FIAT 500....wasn't particularly good when it was introduced six years ago after a three decade absence, and it has scarcely improved since.....It's ride quality is terrible, the steering's too light and vague and despite the car's size there's almost no room in the rear cabin or the boot. It isn't even good value, yet it flies out of the showrooms, and we know why. Sheer charm.

I thought I read about 3years ago that fiat adopted the ford suspension set up on 500s from that point on.

I don't know which way round it is, but Ford can't have changed a great deal as modern manufacturing practices wouldn't allow it so they must have only mucked around with suspension settings, spring rates and bushings. I'm a big FIAT fan and a confirmed Italophile, yet I look at the current range and despair.

I watched a programme on TV the other night called Inspector Montalbano which is set in Sicily (Italian with English subtitles) and he drives a fairly late model Tipo.....and it still looks good, it's just a pity that the trim on the basic versions were so drab. It was replaced by the Bravo and Brava and then the Stilo as we all know. But I watched the programme and thought what a good looking car the Tipo was in later versions. And I thought that the Bravo/a was such a distinctive car that you could identify them from behind in the dark just by their lights. I might be wrong but didn't they have independent suspension?

So, distinctive styling and advanced suspension then. The Punto received really good reviews when it first came out but the rest caught up and so far FIAT haven't responded. The GP when it first came out was, in my view, the best looking supermini by far and none have surpassed it, although the Italians have done their best to cock up the refresh.

In the next 2 years I'm going to replace the Panda but, apart from another Panda I'm a bit stuck. The 500 doesn't have enough interior space, the Punto must be ending about now, in fact I don't even think it features in some magazine's price lists and it looks like there won't be a direct replacement, so it seems to be a toss up between a Panda and a 500L

I worry about where the excitement has gone. Where are the Strada 130TC, 124 Coupe and Spider; the Barchetta and Coupe 20V? Where is the elegance of the Dino and 130 Coupes? Is the best we can hope for a metal box with Wi-Fi?

Maybe I'm just a dinosaur stuck in the days of crackling exhausts where the cars reflected the land they came from. Not just the reputation of poor manufacture, but the arm waving and the pasta and the Chianti. Gina Lollabridgida, Sophia Loren, Marcello Mastroianni, Franco Nero and Rosanno Brazzi; Michele Alboreto, Alberto Ascari, Andrea de Cesaris, Vincenzo Lancia and Enzo Ferrari.

Comparing the number of model ranges being marketed by Audi and even Citroen with FIAT, I think, points to the Italians being in trouble. Although I have seen some 500Ls, they are vastly outnumbered by small and medium sized Citroens. Maybe the upcoming 500X will provide a little interest.

The 500 is quite tendy and the Panda is holding the sensible ground quite well, but to hang an entire company's future on three model ranges is suicidal, especially when those three model ranges are no better than slightly above average. The phrases "Could do better, and Must try harder" spring to mind.

They should have done a similar deal with Ford as they did with GM, but instead of a small number of petrol engines, they could have had Ford's chassis engineers. That was a missed opportunity.

I thought fiat was going for a small car, small engine, city orientated approach, I certainly wouldn't get a new fiat for a 2nd car, unless maybe GP abarth.

What did you mean by 'punto coming to an end'? It would be a shame really, well, it's a shame the first lot of GP's are no longer, best thing i like about mine is the sheer amount of mods you can do to them with decent results

kyle96 said:

I thought fiat was going for a small car, small engine, city orientated approach, I certainly wouldn't get a new fiat for a 2nd car, unless maybe GP abarth.

What did you mean by 'punto coming to an end'? It would be a shame really, well, it's a shame the first lot of GP's are no longer, best thing i like about mine is the sheer amount of mods you can do to them with decent results

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Like remap a 1.2? LOL.

iirc the GP is in its last revision. So is the Bravo. amirite? soon FIAT will only offer the 500a, 500b, 500c (repeat until 500z).

Magic Johnson said:

Like remap a 1.2? LOL.

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I was thinking more of exterior mods, not so much the inner workings