Technical Punto Grande gearbox help Manchester

[les1466]

Hi, I have a 65 reg 1.4 Punto Grande semi automatic. Only done 22,000 k

In December a warning oil can light flashed on the dashboard and a message saying "Transmission see handbook" apeared on the LCD display. What this caused was a slight judder when going from 1st to 2nd gear and when the gear stick had been put into reverse. However, this only happened when the car had warmed up, it was perfect when the car was cold.
I took the car to a garage thinking the gear box oil needed changing. I had this changed, the problem still occurred. I then had it put on a diagnostics machine. This came up with an error code "P1744 Hydraulic circuit pressure sensor". The mechanics knew nothing about this as they had never seen a semi auto punto before. While they were changing the gearbox oil they noticed that the selespeed oil was a little low and that there was a few drops coming out.

I bought selespeed oil and topped that up. The problem still occurred and was getting worse. I took the car to another garage that thought that the clutch had gone because of the judder, but after looking at the gearbox didnt want to touch it. He told me my only option was to take it to a Fiat dealer and get a proper diagnostics test as this would show the exact problem.

I have now done this and have been quoted quite a ridiculous price... However, I now know the fault. They are saying it is the hydraulic control unit for the selespeed... However, this is intermittent and can probably be repaired. Unfortunately they do-not do repairs and would only be able to fit a new one. At the cost of around £900 I think I will try getting it repaired.

So, my big question is.... Does anyone know where I can get this repaired and have a new clutch fitted at the same time.
The Hydraulic unit is part number 100000055236177 and the clutch is qck9883
I am in the Manchester area of the UK.

Also, can anybody help... Are parts not covered for so many miles? The car has only done 22,000 k. Surely this should not happen??

I would be very very grateful if someone could help me with this.

Thank you.

Les

 

[speedtriple]

Hi again, sounds like the control unit is faulty! Could just be one of the sensors which on some hydraulic control units can be replaced. These can be bought seperately (not from Fiat though) and are certainly cheaper than a whole unit!
Might be worth looking at the Alfa Romeo owners forum. The selespeed unit has been used on Alfa's for a while and there are quite a few posts about faults and potential repairs including sensors. etc. They may also be able to point you to an Alfa Romeo repair specialist who may have experience with the semi-auto box, worth thinking about, as the systems on Fiats are identical and use most of the same parts (for less money!).
Fiat will just replace parts at list price plus labour. The Hydraulic unit can be repaired depending upon the amount of wear in the actuators. Again, the Alfa site may be helpful here for potential repairers.
It is not unusual for the semi-auto dualogic/selespeed unit to give up early.
I would check the oil level of the control unit reservoir again as it can lose oil quickly which will correspondingly reduce the pump pressure and its ability to continue to prime the system. When you open the drivers door, how long does the pump run for? If it is low, top it up the the MAX mark and keep it at that level. This may help the unit to retain pressure, select gears and operate the clutch more easily, but if its leaking, due to the high pressure in the system, it will quickly lose oil again! I had an Idea that needed topping up every 500 miles and leaked badly! Lasted quite a while though as long as I topped it up regularly!
You may also have a problem with your clutch! These are a standard item and can be bought cheaply off ebay (£50 - £75). It can easily be replaced by an 'ordinary' garage as it is repaired the same as any 'normal' manual gearbox. Could be worth doing for peace of mind and to check the engine and gearbox oil seals (if leaking onto the clutch plate, this may cause judder). A new clutch may also help aleviate some of the symptoms you are experiencing.
Again, hope this is helpful. Unfortunately, these are complicated units which are a pain to diagnose and repair properly hence most workshops avoiding them!

 

[les1466]

Thank you so much for your response, you are really helpful.

The only thing is I am not mechanically minded what so ever. Are you a mechanic and do you do repairs as you seem to be the only person that knows about this stuff. I have literally been trying to find out since December and you are the only one coming back with anything that slightly resembling some kind of positive solution.
Ok, I found out what the problem was from the Fiat garage for a charge of £80 but then was quoted £1700 for the repair... Hence my reasoning for not wanting to go to them in the first place.
Surely a car with an intermittent fault and that runs perfectly when cold cant have a serious problem that would cost that amount of money??!!

I will try an Alfa Romeo forum... Is there any specific model of car this will be similar too to see if I'm checking the right type. I dont really want to sive through 100's of forum pages blindly. Not because I am lazy to read through them, I am not very technical minded??

You mentioned about about opening the door and the pump being primed???
Can you explain a bit more about this as Im not really sure what this means?

Do I have to pump the door or something to get pressure into the hydraulic pump system for the selespeed?

Once again, thank you so much. Any more info would be really welcome.

Les

 

[Mrfiat01]

Thank you so much for your response, you are really helpful.

The only thing is I am not mechanically minded what so ever. Are you a mechanic and do you do repairs as you seem to be the only person that knows about this stuff. I have literally been trying to find out since December and you are the only one coming back with anything that slightly resembling some kind of positive solution.
Ok, I found out what the problem was from the Fiat garage for a charge of £80 but then was quoted £1700 for the repair... Hence my reasoning for not wanting to go to them in the first place.
Surely a car with an intermittent fault and that runs perfectly when cold cant have a serious problem that would cost that amount of money??!!

I will try an Alfa Romeo forum... Is there any specific model of car this will be similar too to see if I'm checking the right type. I dont really want to sive through 100's of forum pages blindly. Not because I am lazy to read through them, I am not very technical minded??

You mentioned about about opening the door and the pump being primed???
Can you explain a bit more about this as Im not really sure what this means?

Do I have to pump the door or something to get pressure into the hydraulic pump system for the selespeed?

Once again, thank you so much. Any more info would be really welcome.

Les

Hello'

Did u find any help with your car? I have the same problem with my fiat grande punto 07 plate. Fiat quoted me 1250 pounds to fix with no guarantee it will even work. I'm stressed out. Confused.

 

[les1466]

Hiya mate, I got quoted £1700.
Now this is going to seem really weird but here's what I have done... Obviously I dont know if you'll be as lucky.

Speedtriple replied above telling me that the door mechanism on the drivers door primes the pump... Someone else told me that a trick that Fiat machanics do that somehow refreshes or gets the hydraulics to their prime position is to open and close the drivers door 10 times...
At first I thought they were taking the ****, but when a couple of people say it, it's worth a shot.... Anyway, I topped up the Selespeed oil and did the door thing... A few days later my car was running perfectly... Straight up!!
I am absolutely gobsmacked!! I can only assume that the car was leaking pressure and somehow this has been put right by the door thing and topping up the Selespeed oil.
It could of been a total fluke and that there was something lose and it has now attached back properly or not... I really havent a clue. I'm just so f**king stoked that I didnt have to shell out £1700 for something that was obviously a minor fault and the car is now running perfect again and has been for 3 weeks.

Give that a try mate, it's worth it. Just make sure you buy the correct oil. You can get it from any Fiat dealer.

I will let you know if this is still working in a few weeks. Let me know how you get on?

Fiat dealers... £1700... Ive ****ing **** em!!

 

[ame]

Hiya mate, I got quoted £1700.
Now this is going to seem really weird but here's what I have done... Obviously I dont know if you'll be as lucky.

Speedtriple replied above telling me that the door mechanism on the drivers door primes the pump... Someone else told me that a trick that Fiat machanics do that somehow refreshes or gets the hydraulics to their prime position is to open and close the drivers door 10 times...
At first I thought they were taking the ****, but when a couple of people say it, it's worth a shot.... Anyway, I topped up the Selespeed oil and did the door thing... A few days later my car was running perfectly... Straight up!!
I am absolutely gobsmacked!! I can only assume that the car was leaking pressure and somehow this has been put right by the door thing and topping up the Selespeed oil.
It could of been a total fluke and that there was something lose and it has now attached back properly or not... I really havent a clue. I'm just so f**king stoked that I didnt have to shell out £1700 for something that was obviously a minor fault and the car is now running perfect again and has been for 3 weeks.

Give that a try mate, it's worth it. Just make sure you buy the correct oil. You can get it from any Fiat dealer.

I will let you know if this is still working in a few weeks. Let me know how you get on?

Fiat dealers... £1700... Ive ****ing **** em!!

hello friend ...i've had similar problem with my GP dualogic ..i get the odd warning coming up (see transmission) i had my hydraulic switch repaired NOT by FIAT!! (i had a very slight leak) car runs well smooth overall but still get this (see transmission warning) ?? when you say you opened & closed your door 10 times ..was that in quick succession or 15 min intervals because you only get the whining noise after 15 mins of opening ???

 

[les1466]

In succession mate... Like I say, I havent a clue if it was that that did anything. haha
I suggest doing it while no-one is there like I did as you will certainly get odd looks.

It could well of just been a fluke or there could of been a bit of dirt in my system... I honestly havent a clue.
Make sure your oil is topped up (selespeed)
It worth a go...

 

[Laney65]

Hi les,
Thanks for posting info re opening and closing door to fix transmission error. I was quoted over £2000.00 today re same problem as yourself. When I saw your post I did exactly the same and my car is now working in auto. Phoned back Fiat who said that this does sort out the problem sometimes. Please can you advise if you car is still working in auto and manual or did the problem come back.

Many thanks

 

[les1466]

Its bloody come back again mate.
It worked perfectly for 3 months and now back to square one.
The really disappointing thing about this is, no-one, not even on a dedicated forum to Fiat cars, does anyone seem to have a clue??? Surely this is a serious design problem with these cars as there seems to be 1000's of people having the same problem with the dual logic system and no-one seems to have a clue how to repair them...
Fiat simply want to replace the unit at a ridiculous cost!!!
I guarantee one thing... I will never buy another Fiat after this!! I understand that cars develope problems but, with Fiats it seems to be that big a problem and so costly that it really isnt worth the aggravation.

Did you ever get to the bottom of your problem?

 

[DueUno]

Try MVC is Sale - they're an independent Fiat and Alfa specialist. He made bits for my Alfa using off the shelf bits to avoid the stupid prices and they're always reasonable on costs.

If it can be fixed without replacing it, they can do it

 

[les1466]

Cheers for that, I will look them up tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[grandepuntodualogic]

Hi,

Any update on this? were you able to find a solution to this problem? Unfortunately i'm getting the same problem now and have no clue how to fix it.