Garree001 said:

I think in the course of this thread, a great many people will have made their minds up about you, which I am glad about

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Yeah, I have - he has more of a clue than you.

As far as I can see (especially when you take into account my profession) asking for a transmission loss percentages to get an approximate value is a fair question. There's nothing wrong with being curious.

I don't know about Bomas's car, but I do know that Tym and Beany_Bot had live maps done at Red Dot. Their maps have been pushed closer to the limit. Due to using a generic map, the TMC boxes, by Daron's admission, are deliberately tuned conservatively (i.e. a figure of 20%).

Red Dot didn't tune those cars you mentioned to give a 20% increase. Plus, if you look, Adamcot's GP 130 gives less than 190bhp at the fly (with a graph to show this), which is less than what Tym says his GP got at the wheels.

I don't know what pulling those figures out of the search does for your arguement TBH. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

TMC Motorsport said:

As for the comment about him throwing his money away? He bought a tuning kit to get a 20% power increase and will have that so how is that throwing your money away?

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Depends what your hope was really - he clearly wanted the flywheel figures so I suppose he could compare his car's c0ck size with other people's. If you look at it from that end, he got nowhere near what he was hoping for and in turn - it was a waste of money.

However, I did say in a latter post that any gain is satisfying and I hoped he enjoyed it. And if your product is delivering what you advertise it is capable of doing, then there's no problem is there? Unless of course some of your customers go away thinking that they will be getting some of the higher figures they see on this site... Like MrSaffron seemed to be - why else would he want to work out a flywheel figure? "My car's giving me 130bhp at the wheels, but, but I am getting 155 at the flywheel!! Honest!!!"

chaos said:

Yeah, I have - he has more of a clue than you.

As far as I can see (especially when you take into account my profession) asking for a transmission loss percentages to get an approximate value is a fair question. There's nothing wrong with being curious.

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Yes. And did you bother to read what I asked at the start? I only wanted to confirm that the box was on and got a load of crap back from him. Was only fair that he got the same back.

chaos said:

I don't know about Bomas's car, but I do know that Tym and Beany_Bot had live maps done at Red Dot. Their maps have been pushed closer to the limit. Due to using a generic map, the TMC boxes, by Daron's admission, are deliberately tuned conservatively (i.e. a figure of 20%).

Red Dot didn't tune those cars you mentioned to give a 20% increase. Plus, if you look, Adamcot's GP 130 gives less than 190bhp at the fly (with a graph to show this), which is less than what Tym says his GP got at the wheels.

I don't know what pulling those figures out of the search does for your arguement TBH. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

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Yes, I am aware of where they got their maps done... I fail to see what your point is about this or Adam's lower flywheel figure. As said above - he clearly wanted to get some of the figures the guys here have got and as he was a :tosser: about the whole thing I thought I'd show he was nowhere near - and actually putting some at the wheel figures up so he could compare is quite helpful in my opinion. So I suppose I pulled those figures out for the same reason you mentioned Adam's

Garree001 said:

Depends what your hope was really - he clearly wanted the flywheel figures so I suppose he could compare his car's c0ck size with other people's. If you look at it from that end, he got nowhere near what he was hoping for and in turn - it was a waste of money.

However, I did say in a latter post that any gain is satisfying and I hoped he enjoyed it. And if your product is delivering what you advertise it is capable of doing, then there's no problem is there? Unless of course some of your customers go away thinking that they will be getting some of the higher figures they see on this site... Like MrSaffron seemed to be - why else would he want to work out a flywheel figure? "My car's giving me 130bhp at the wheels, but, but I am getting 155 at the flywheel!! Honest!!!"

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You seem to be out to pick a fight regardless of what anyone says but I have a hangover this morning so i'll let the others continue this my heads busting

The biggest problem Mr Saffron is going to have getting any sort of decent dyno reading is the ambient temp, its 30 degrees out there and its gonna be damn hard to cool a turbo charged car on the dyno in that heat regardless of what size of fan they are using, its never gonna create the airflow/cooling you'll get driving on the road.
As far as correction factors the last dyno run I was at they were using a 20% correction factor, wether thats right or wrong I don't know but thats what it was.
Also Mr Saffron if you used a dyno that had corrected the power to the flywheel the outside temp def would have been a correction factor.

TMC Motorsport said:

You seem to be out to pick a fight regardless of what anyone says but I have a hangover this morning so i'll let the others continue this my heads busting

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Not after a fight at all. He did make a big song and dance about wanting real world conditions (at the wheel figures etc) - so if they are correcting for things like a higher temperature, what good is saying that you got a reading of 132bhp if you have to add the proviso "but if it was 20c - I'd have more power!" Just seems mad.

Garree001 said:

Not after a fight at all. He did make a big song and dance about wanting real world conditions (at the wheel figures etc) - so if they are correcting for things like a higher temperature, what good is saying that you got a reading of 132bhp if you have to add the proviso "but if it was 20c - I'd have more power!" Just seems mad.

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Fact is though at lower temps you will have more. Bear in mind we are not talking a few degrees , compared to here today its about 27 degrees warmer, and my point is cooling a car on the dyno in that temp is gonna be a real challenge. That's why you have correction factors on dynos, they would have allowed for the temperature.

Anyways Mr Saffron i'm off to the beach too! In a duffle coat and ski gloves in the hope that the sea air will clear my head

Garree001 said:

Yes. And did you bother to read what I asked at the start? I only wanted to confirm that the box was on and got a load of crap back from him. Was only fair that he got the same back.

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Yeah, I bothered to read the thread properly, which is something you didn't do. The title quite clearly states that it was dyno'd WITH the tuning box.

Garree001 said:

Yes, I am aware of where they got their maps done... I fail to see what your point is about this or Adam's lower flywheel figure. As said above - he clearly wanted to get some of the figures the guys here have got and as he was a :tosser: about the whole thing I thought I'd show he was nowhere near - and actually putting some at the wheel figures up so he could compare is quite helpful in my opinion. So I suppose I pulled those figures out for the same reason you mentioned Adam's

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No, it illustrated my point perfectly. The live mapping by its very nature is custom. Therefore the cars can be in different states of tune. Like I said, comparing apples to oranges.

Plus the bloke has continually said that he wasn't expecting the figures you've quoted. The box is not designed to do those sorts of figures and he has acknowledged that.

To say that it hasn't given the OP a gain and to undermine it is wrong IMO.

chaos said:

Red Dot didn't tune those cars you mentioned to give a 20% increase. Plus, if you look, Adamcot's GP 130 gives less than 190bhp at the fly (with a graph to show this), which is less than what Tym says his GP got at the wheels.

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Id quite like to stay out of this please FYI, the car rolled at 149bhp at the wheels. BHP is useless anyway without torque.

Tym's figures "at the wheels" were never proven, there is no comparison.

I hope MrSaffron is pleased with his extra power.

chaos said:

Yeah, I bothered to read the thread properly, which is something you didn't do. The title quite clearly states that it was dyno'd WITH the tuning box.

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And I suppose you read Dave's comments after too then (as you have read the thread carefully)... You'll find the answer to that one there

chaos said:

Plus the bloke has continually said that he wasn't expecting the figures you've quoted. The box is not designed to do those sorts of figures and he has acknowledged that.

To say that it hasn't given the OP a gain and to undermine it is wrong IMO.

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I could quite easily say that I find him the nicest bloke on earth - but what I do might not suggest this and I could in think fact he's not even the nicest person I know in Australia. Same thing with him denying he wanted that power gain from the box. The way it works in my mind is - he got the dyno reading done, came here to compare and saw that he got a much lower figure than everyone else and disliked it when someone else thought the same, wanted to try and salvage some of this by working out what the mechanical drag takes out, still found it was a lot less and still didn't like it when this was shown to him

thread locked till section mod comes. Garree001's original question only needed a yes answer.

there is still no point getting a rr after a mod with no rr before to compare to