Exactly what I am saying... if you get the print out and it has a clear log of an over rev then there is nothing you can do. I.e. a rev beyond 6500rpm for any length of time.

OCZedd said:

Exactly what I am saying... if you get the print out and it has a clear log of an over rev then there is nothing you can do. I.e. a rev beyond 6500rpm for any length of time.

Click to expand...

Fiat allow for a very-limited number of accidental over-revs (usual signs are the duration of the over-rev being only miliseconds). 255 events are definately more than 'accidental' though.

exactly

Hi,

Just a wee update now the car is 6 weeks in garage.

6 days since request for meeting to discuss car and the ECU printout, nothing to update. . . . . garage say they are still waiting to hear back from Regional Fiat Rep.

onboard said:

Hi,

Just a wee update now the car is 6 weeks in garage.

6 days since request for meeting to discuss car and the ECU printout, nothing to update. . . . . garage say they are still waiting to hear back from Regional Fiat Rep.

Click to expand...

Another update: Garage say Fiat rep not prepared to have meeting but the workshop manager and garage manager are prepared to have one and Fiat still saying no to repair or replacement gearbox.

I learned yesterday that the gearbox which was put in the car 3,000 miles ago was actually a reconditioned gearbox and not a new one. I have obviously asked if they can establish the history of the gearbox and what was actually reconditioned.

I have requested yet again to get all information relative to the car repairs and maintenance including the first and second gearbox and the garage has said they will now get the information for me. If they don't I will put in a formal request under the data Protection Act which they & Fiat by law will need to comply with.

A main concern I have and the reason I asked for the meeting with Fiat Rep and garage is the fact the Fiat Customer Care Advisor said the workshop manager told her a different story to the one he told me, he assured me he had told them the same and could not understand how driver error could cause the pinion rod for the satellite gears in the dif to break without damage to other parts of the gearbox or engine first.

I have now accelerated what we are doing and reminded the garage that although I have been more than patient alowing them to chase fiat up, my actual contract under consumer law is with the garage and the finance company and I now expect a quicker solution to the problem.

After a phone call to the finance company, I have now sent a letter off to them stating all the facts and they have assured me they will progress matters with the garage.

I wait to see how the next week develops.

onboard said:

Hi,

Better update this time, I have got word today from garage that they sent gearbox to be examined & reconditioned at gearbox specialist and the garage have confirmed they are covering the full cost of the repair, will give it a full year warranty and should have the car ready for the end of this week.

Although it should have been dealt with quicker, at the end of the day it is the result that was required in the circumstances and should give some hope to those who experience problems like this.

Click to expand...

Excellent news... Good result

Hi,

Result as hoped for - car returned today with reconditioned/repaired gearbox with cost FULLY covered covered by the garage.

It appears to be a little close between 3rd & 4th and 5th & 6th but garage say it should settle down after a few miles and reckoned it was fine on road test.

Will wait and see if it does.

Jesus, transmission blow outs?! That sounds incredibly frightning, Im glad it worked out well for you - but I really hope this isnt an issue with the Punto's, as I often "engine brake" to get around beds to minimise braking and also to keep the revv's up fair high, since the acceleration isnt good at low rpm's (1.4 petrol dynamic)... Ive never gone into the red zone but I also this technique ALL the time, should I stop? :S

Hi,

It is up to you how you drive and what you are describing is a perfectly acceptable style of driving.

Although the car has been fixed and there have been descriptions throughout this thread of what the garage, Fiat and members of the site have described as over-revs, I have not had a definitive answer in writting from Fiat nor a print-out of the ECU record of over-revs.

It will be interesting to see how other members' problems are resolved as and when they may arise.

Brian

You seem to have forgotten to mention what the actual outcome was and what fiats decision was.

The only way this whole thread is going to be helpful is if we know the full story. So . . .

why did fiat change their minds? have fiat changed their minds? or have the garage just decided to sort it out themselves?

I would agree that a lot of people do not know their rights when it comes to returns and warranties but you are seriously wrong on a few points. Mainly a manufacturer's goods only have to be fit for purpose for 1 year and this is stated in the sale of goods act.

However from my own experiences, you can almost always win (saying this because i have not yet lost) an argument against a company in these situations. All you have to do is be persistant, have the garage now fixed your car because they are fed up of you chasing them every week? I have had countless products repaired/replaced out of warranty simple because i wouldn't go away until they had done.

So my advice to anyone is to simply to accept nothing other than what you want, and continue to climb the ladder, from manager to manager until someone says yes.

One last point, you seem to have spent a long long time telling fiat that it is their fault when they were telling you it wasn't. Now why did you never go to another independent engineer and have him do a report on the damage? If he said it was NOT driver error, you could have got this sorted SOOOO much sooner. Then if they did still refuse, simply take it to the small claims court. Your evidence will far outway ANYTHING fiat would manage to come up with in the few weeks it will take for the court date to roll along, then your laughing happy!

danielfay88 said:

You seem to have forgotten to mention what the actual outcome was and what fiats decision was.

The only way this whole thread is going to be helpful is if we know the full story. So . . .

why did fiat change their minds? have fiat changed their minds? or have the garage just decided to sort it out themselves?

Click to expand...

So far, Fiat have not changed their minds and the garage, as far as I know will now be taking it up direct with Fiat. But that is down to them as my only concern is the car is now fixed

danielfay88 said:

I would agree that a lot of people do not know their rights when it comes to returns and warranties but you are seriously wrong on a few points. Mainly a manufacturer's goods only have to be fit for purpose for 1 year and this is stated in the sale of goods act.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ in what you say and I am not wrong at all and this is where many do not know their rights and is why a thread like this is a benefit to even those who think they do know! I can clarify the six years from this extract from Sale of Goods Act fact sheet:
Subject:

Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.
Relevant or Related Legislation:

Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

danielfay88 said:

However from my own experiences, you can almost always win (saying this because i have not yet lost) an argument against a company in these situations. All you have to do is be persistant, have the garage now fixed your car because they are fed up of you chasing them every week? I have had countless products repaired/replaced out of warranty simple because i wouldn't go away until they had done.

Click to expand...

The retailer may well have repaired or replaced things for you as they knew what you didn't re the Sale of Goods Act. The garage repaired it as they knew that I knew it was their responsibility and also they had a copy of the letter I sent to the finance company who were going to get involved.

danielfay88 said:

So my advice to anyone is to simply to accept nothing other than what you want, and continue to climb the ladder, from manager to manager until someone says yes.

Click to expand...

I would agree, as long as you know that you are correct in what you want.

danielfay88 said:

One last point, you seem to have spent a long long time telling fiat that it is their fault when they were telling you it wasn't. Now why did you never go to another independent engineer and have him do a report on the damage? If he said it was NOT driver error, you could have got this sorted SOOOO much sooner. Then if they did still refuse, simply take it to the small claims court. Your evidence will far outway ANYTHING fiat would manage to come up with in the few weeks it will take for the court date to roll along, then your laughing happy!

Click to expand...

It took a bit longer, but that is what I have experienced happens when you deal with Fiat. Albeit that is our first big problem in a few years. I wasn't bothered about the time too much as I had other cars my son could drive while the problem was sorted out. I didn't fancy packing the gearbox up and sending it to an independent engineer when ultimately that is what the garage did and the result of it being stripped down further at the engineer of their choosing meant they could not distinguish properly what had caused the failure, simply that it had failed and therefore required to be repaired.

Problem solved as it should have been without involvement in any court.

So what were saying here is that if my gearbox, TV, biro pen, microwave, phone, shoes, carpet etc went wrong in 6 years (5 in the northern state of Scotland) then it will be replaced......how would any business survive/make money

T14086 said:

So what were saying here is that if my gearbox, TV, biro pen, microwave, phone, shoes, carpet etc went wrong in 6 years (5 in the northern state of Scotland) then it will be replaced......how would any business survive/make money

Click to expand...

Ultimately this is why many goods with a guarantee also state 'the guarantee does not affect your statutory rights' and why it is almost pointless taking out an extended guarantee.

Earlier in the thread, that is why i gave the example of my father-in-laws TV which has just been replaced free outwith original guarantee.

It was also by using this same Consumer Legislation that I have been able to get 3 replacement V/Hall Corsa Engines for my wife's driving school cars as well as help two other owners do likewise. If serviced properly, would you expect an engine to last longer than the 60,000 miles manufacturers/garage warranty without a major component failure? Yes, generally you would.

And I would argue the same applies to a gearbox.

You have got to ask, have the goods lasted for a reasonable time as you would expect for price paid and what the goods actually were?

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

When I told 'beko' my freezer isn't freezing properly (its nearly 3 years old) I was told to f*ck off & get a life

.......just the tyre issue to sort out now eh Brian? Cant help but notice that for some reason you chose not to mention it in this forum

onboard said:

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland)

Click to expand...

Note, in Scotland, the five years is from discovery of the fact goods were faulty, not from date of purchase.

Brian

Just hope I never bump into you at a party Brian.

Just to clarify the Sale of Goods Act, it is not up to us as mere mortals to say what is reasonable and how long something should last for, only a Judge in a court of law can do this. Lots of things have to be taken into account to make a decision on goods up tot he six year limit. This includes what things are rwasonably used for, the price paid etc. So, for example your Fridge moderator, if you buy a fridge at £100 and in lasts two years, then it is reasonable to think that you have had good value for money and a court of law would probably agree. If you pay £600 for a fridge and it only lasts 16 months then a court would probably agree that that is unreasonable and would come down in your favour of a reapir or replacement etc. The Sales of Goods Act is an absolute minefield. As said, it all comes down to what is reasonable in a court of law.

In the case of this gearbox, if it went to court, it could go either way. But one thing for sure, if the goods are over 6 months old, then it is up to the consumer to PROVE that a fault exists, so as someone already said, get a third party expert to examine the goods and give thier opinion. This would always help in any claim.

However, in this case, the gearbox has now been fixed, so result.

sledge said:

.......just the tyre issue to sort out now eh Brian? Cant help but notice that for some reason you chose not to mention it in this forum

Click to expand...

I had posted the tyre issue here a few days ago and it never appeared on the open forum . . . or for some reason it is now in a different section.

I have been assured by the garage that the tyres have a manufacturing fault and I will get compensated on a % basis according to wear.

Just to clarify, thje gearbox was only replaced a few months ago and was within the 6 month period, which is then down to the garage or Fiat to prove the fault wasn't there when fitted to the car.

You are correct it is the result that now counts and the garage have come good when Fiat didn't.