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General its on a gp 1.4 16v star jet engine but not on a panda 100hp and some photos

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General its on a gp 1.4 16v star jet engine but not on a panda 100hp and some photos

Re: its on a gp 1.4 16v engine but not on a panda 100hp

Different inlet ports are not a new thing. Alfa and Lancia have messed about with it for a long time. And so have others. We will look at it when you come over this week.

Depending on the differences of the cam housing we will see whether we can fit the standard cams or whether to take the cam housing of the existing engine or whether we have to take some other parts of the old engine.

Would be the first time that we can't fix it.
 
Re: its on a gp 1.4 16v engine but not on a panda 100hp

here some pics of bits you wouldn't expect to see for a few years yet.

photos of star jets bits
DSCF3783.JPG


DSCF3782.JPG


DSCF3781.JPG


DSCF3780.JPG


plastic starjet throttle body even the butterfly is plastic :(
soon they be making plastic engines :bang:
DSCF3784.JPG

DSCF3785.JPG
 
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just another thought dave

if the valve recieves no signal to do anything ike for example when the ignition is of then it must be locked in the normal position otherwise how would you do a cambelt on it

so i'm sure it wont be floating about freely

i just asked the fiat flying doctor down at our place today and he seems to think it is mechanically locked until unlocked with oil pressure and then adjusted either way apparently not just one way for egr as i first thought more complicated than i ever imagined lol

should get one running and just unplug it and see what happens

i have done it on the 1.2 in the new 500s and it runs fine without the solenoid plugged in obviously it will bring up errors and such but it does not affect idle or general smoveness of the engine even when revved so similar thing again it must be locked

the reason i was messing with the 500s sensors was because it had a rougth idle problem which turned out to be the phase sensor blades on the end of the camshaft were bent and not producing a good signal at slow idle after getting warm must have been dropped during assembly
 
dave said:
but danny says "a basic diagnostic procedure for testing the operation of the phase variator is to disconnect the wiring and ensure the engine idles roughly"
:confused:
Click to expand...

:eek: Oops, got that a little wrong..... it should be- "disconnect the solenoid, start the engine, and then apply battery voltage to the unit. There should be a noticeable change in idle"......... considering I was doing it from memory I weren't far-off. :D

While I agree there must be some mechanical device inside to hold it in a neutral position, I don't know if I'd trust it at high revs. Fiat describe the variator as "continuous" in operation, and mention that to maintain it in a particular position once advanced/retarded, oil is directed to both sides to create equal force on the vanes. After an oil change we have noticed a few which idle particularly rough until the oil reaches the top-end and the system can operate fully (the 1.4 8v also runs a similar system).

And aside from that, does the neutral position (0 deg advance/retard) give an ideal cam profile for decent power? A quick browse through the manufacturing data suggests the GP Starjet exhaust cam has less valve lift than the same engine in Stilo's, 500's and Bravo's (although they're 'normal' 1.4 16v's without VVT).

littlepip17 said:
it must be locked in the normal position otherwise how would you do a cambelt on it
Click to expand...

You're supposed to lock the cam pulley before undoing it from the variator to allow the belt to feed around better (after locking the camshaft with the usual 1.2 16v tools).

A Tech I know didn't realise this and the pulley turned slightly when the tension was off the belt, leaving him with a lot of grief to line it all up again.
 

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D4nny8oy said:
:eek: Oops, got that a little wrong..... it should be- "disconnect the solenoid, start the engine, and then apply battery voltage to the unit. There should be a noticeable change in idle"......... considering I was doing it from memory I weren't far-off. :D

While I agree there must be some mechanical device inside to hold it in a neutral position, I don't know if I'd trust it at high revs. Fiat describe the variator as "continuous" in operation, and mention that to maintain it in a particular position once advanced/retarded, oil is directed to both sides to create equal force on the vanes. After an oil change we have noticed a few which idle particularly rough until the oil reaches the top-end and the system can operate fully (the 1.4 8v also runs a similar system).

And aside from that, does the neutral position (0 deg advance/retard) give an ideal cam profile for decent power? A quick browse through the manufacturing data suggests the GP Starjet exhaust cam has less valve lift than the same engine in Stilo's, 500's and Bravo's (although they're 'normal' 1.4 16v's without VVT).



You're supposed to lock the cam pulley before undoing it from the variator to allow the belt to feed around better (after locking the camshaft with the usual 1.2 16v tools).

A Tech I know didn't realise this and the pulley turned slightly when the tension was off the belt, leaving him with a lot of grief to line it all up again.
Click to expand...

ok well i understand you can lock the cam shaft obviously with normal tools and during cam belt change you can lock the sprocket with tool shown but if you were to remove the variator from camshaft you would need it locked to put it back in the right place as it's free to rotate if you loosen the nut in the centre under cap so as i say it must be locked but as pointed out would it stay put at 7000rpm or would it be any good there anyway

need to find some pics of exactly how it is locked my guess is neutral oil pressure allows it to stay put and positive on both sides unlocks it so it can be moved buy varying the pressures on either side with a duty cycle on the valve in fact if dave could remove just the valve and find out were oil inputs outputs are how many and were they go also how many pins on the valve and how many oil ways it can open close simultaneously would be good to know to work out how it works

think i might find myself on etech on thursdy trying to find some information on the system

one of our staff has one o these cars and today i unplugged it on the gp 1.4 16v and at idle it did nothing i didn't rev it or drive it thou so maybe that will help
 
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I haven't got eper either, but upon checking the Exhaust cam lift it shows both the Punto and Stilo 1.2 and 1.4 16v engines have the same amount. However the timing angles (when the valves are opened/closed) differ- the 1.4 opens 2 deg earlier and closes 2 deg earlier. Possibly fixable with a vernier pulley?

The GP timing angles are different again, though it doesn't list angles specific to the Starjet.
 
Late mk2 Punto's had the 1.4 engine and the cam lift is the same amount as the Stilo, though from what I gather they're rarer to find than rocking-horse c**p. :cry:
 
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