Right as some of you will know Dubster's got through 6 or 7 Alternators in the space of 2 years.

Now before I had the RTC in January 2012 Dubster ran fine, I can't seem to understand what the problem actually is.
I've had Billy (friend of ours who's a mechanic) have a look at Dubster, he found a small leak under the washer jets & fixed that, but it's still not cured the actual problem.

I have a 6.5" Hose on at the windscreen drain point which was fitted by Bridgend & I know it's a genuine part as one of my contacts on Facebook works for Abarth. He can't understand why my car keeps blowing Alternators.

I phoned an Auto Electrics company in Kilwinning, but he can't look at Dubster until Thursday & when I explained about the RTC I'd had 2 years ago & told him where the damage was & who did the repair, he said that he suspects it could be a bad wire.

Now I can't keep paying out £94.30+VAT through TMS for a Denso Alternator (Part number DAN998) if 2 or 3 months down the line the Alternator goes again.

I can't see it being my Sound System as that was fitted by Audiowise EK, who I've known for 6years.

I'm completely clueless as to what's causing the failures of the Alternators, so any help would be appreciated

i'd honestly take out the sound system from the loop (just disconnect it, don't remove it!) and see what happens in time. (unless you fancy getting mucked in with an volt meter)

Don't blindly say it must be ok just because you know who fitted it, people make mistakes and do things wrong by accident, even pro's!

have you got a volt meter?

what v do you get with engine off and same with engine on?

does it change with the sound system attached (take fuse out to detach)

headlights on? fan ect see what it gets to with everything running.

Definately has to be worth running without it to see what (if any) difference it makes.

Sometimes y'never know

Mrcento said:

i'd honestly take out the sound system from the loop (just disconnect it, don't remove it!) and see what happens in time. (unless you fancy getting mucked in with an volt meter)

Don't blindly say it must be ok just because you know who fitted it, people make mistakes and do things wrong by accident, even pro's!

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Thing is Mark, right up until I got the car back from UK Assistance this problem has been happening.
So this is what makes me suspect they knocked a wiring harness somewhere, as I'd taken the Sub & CD Fascia out of the car before they took Dubster away.

Since this one's been dying I've not had my music on, so the CD fascia is off & I did have a Multi Meter, suspect my Step-dad used it & it's 'somewhere' which could mean it's in 1 of 3 places: The Garage, His Steam Cupboard under the Stairs of his Hut all of which are in a mess.

Well fwiw, i'm digging about doing looms on the cinq atm, and i don't buy the loom theory. there'd be a lot more symptoms IMO plus looms aren't that easy to damage/trap/cut. You have the wires themselves covered in plastic, they are then taped, then wrapped in plastic collars, then taped again. At junctions they are fabric taped. it takes a LOT to slice them open and if it was anything else, you'd have stuff not working and/or warning lights, plus smouldering smells..even a fire.

It's either an alt installation issue (unlikely with so many changes for them to **** the lot up), or an electrical overload /short elsewhere in the car on a positive wire, and given that it's not a common issue on the grande (bar the drain one, which you've already ruled out and it happens too often, it suggests a unique issue) the audio system is custom installed, doesn't have warning lights and wouldn't effect the car until the alt get killed very dead, seems the place to start. check the routing of the feed cable from the positive battery terminal, check it isn't chafing anywhere there should be a grommet (may have pulled the grommet through when installing leading to wire rubbing on metal) or trapped causing an internal break/short.

I agree...

Disconnect your install

Mrcento said:

Well fwiw, i'm digging about doing looms on the cinq atm, and i don't buy the loom theory. there'd be a lot more symptoms IMO plus looms aren't that easy to damage/trap/cut. You have the wires themselves covered in plastic, they are then taped, then wrapped in plastic collars, then taped again. At junctions they are fabric taped. it takes a LOT to slice them open and if it was anything else, you'd have stuff not working and/or warning lights, plus smouldering smells..even a fire.

It's either an alt installation issue (unlikely with so many changes for them to **** the lot up), or an electrical overload /short elsewhere in the car on a positive wire, and given that it's not a common issue on the grande (bar the drain one, which you've already ruled out and it happens too often, it suggests a unique issue) the audio system is custom installed, doesn't have warning lights and wouldn't effect the car until the alt get killed very dead, seems the place to start. check the routing of the feed cable from the positive battery terminal, check it isn't chafing anywhere there should be a grommet (may have pulled the grommet through when installing leading to wire rubbing on metal) or trapped causing an internal break/short.

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From the Pos Terminal, it goes through the Soundproofing through the bulkhead, runs down the passenger side sill, through to the boot, where it connects into the Sub.
The Amp wires also run down the passenger side & into the boot from the CD Player.

I'll try & get a pic of where the wire goes from the battery in the morning when I've got more light.

Going to pop up to AJ Autolec in Kilwinning on Thursday Morning & going to rack Alan's Brain see if he can work something out, even if I have to pop over in the morning, East Kilbride's not that far away (roughly 45mins drive).

But I can see me having to pay out for another Alternator @ £94.30+VAT. might have to use TMS Ayr as suspect I will be recognized at TMS Kilmarnock.

Disconnect the positive from the battery and see how it goes.... its easy enough.... it might.....MIGHT save you £94.30+VAT and driving 45mins to the garage.

andi im coming yours ill be there in a few hours ...... ill fix it

Quick update.

Spoke to the guy at AJ Autolec & explained the problem to him.
The Sound System is NOT at fault, he said it's more likely that I'm just very unlucky with Alternators & that I could have been getting a bad run of them.

We had a look at trying to get an Alternator from a larger engine, but there mounting is different, so that wouldn't work.
I could get away with putting an Alternator from an AC Model in as it's a slightly higher Ampege output.

He said that Bearings can fail quite easily & that he thought he saw a slight wobble from the Crank shaft pulley when I started Dubster up, but he couldn't be 100% certain as it was not visable when the engine was running.

I can't remember how much Arnold Clark were for an Alternator with a 2yr guarantee. But I was told to get another Alternator & belt, as the belt was "zinging tight" & get a garage to fit it, so if 2 months down the line it dies, the problems lays with them & not me.

Asked him if it would hold up for Sunday & he said it's the unknown, I could get there & it's just noisy or it could die on route.

You've probably just been really unlucky witl Alternators?

absolute bullshit.

1, i could probably agree with. 2, possibly, 3 i could maybe just about accept if the second part was clearly faulty, but have major doubts. 4, i'd say is a major fault, 6 or 7, i'd punch the guy for fobbing me off with that "excuse"

did he run any tests?

if he's rught about the belt being zinging tight, then it's possible whoever is fitting them is overtightening them and that is killing the bearings. But to **** up 6 or 7 alternators on one car is so unreal, whoever did that should never work on any car again, it's not hard, belt should be tight but only tight enough to stop slippage (screeeeeeeeeech). Belt should deflect a small amount when fitted. If it's solid, it'll kill the bearings eventually.

Mrcento said:

You've probably just been really unlucky witl Alternators?

absolute bullshit.

1, i could probably agree with. 2, possibly, 3 i could maybe just about accept if the second part was clearly faulty, but have major doubts. 4, i'd say is a major fault, 6 or 7, i'd punch the guy for fobbing me off with that "excuse"

did he run any tests?

if he's rught about the belt being zinging tight, then it's possible whoever is fitting them is overtightening them and that is killing the bearings. But to **** up 6 or 7 alternators on one car is so unreal, whoever did that should never work on any car again, it's not hard, belt should be tight but only tight enough to stop slippage (screeeeeeeeeech). Belt should deflect a small amount when fitted. If it's solid, it'll kill the bearings eventually.

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No tests as he didn't have time as he'd got his hands full with other cars in the workshop.

I know the belts should be tight without being too tight.
So could it be that the Alternator Belt's too tight & that's what's possibly causing the failure Mark?

Andi mate...deffo sounds like an independant opinion is needed. Of course the audio guy aint gonna admit its their wiring. It may not be but six or so alternators is bordering on laughable. Couldnt tell ya last time I replaced one and I usually rack up the miles.

Hopefully itll hold for sunday but see what happens. Be good to see you at Cupar!

Andi_F said:

No tests as he didn't have time as he'd got his hands full with other cars in the workshop.

I know the belts should be tight without being too tight.
So could it be that the Alternator Belt's too tight & that's what's possibly causing the failure Mark?

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So what makes you think you can rule things out on the basis of somebody just taking a wild guess? (and let's be brutally frank here.... that's a really, really **** wild guess.. "unlucky with then, had a bad run of them",6 or 7 in two years? utter horse ****, borderline offensive.)

Well yes, it "could" but another brutally frank assessment, if the same garage has misfitted 6 or 7 alternators on one car in 2 years and killed the lot of them, whoever is fitting them should be handed their jotters. You'd be hard pushed to find a professional mechanic that had badly fitted and therefore killed 6 or 7 alternators in their entire life (it really is a job even a ham-fisted monkey should get right 99/100 times), let alone one that's done that many on one car in 2 years! if it's the same mechanic, he's not a mechanic. if it's a team, none of them are mechanics....



Nobody can be that useless.... surely to god.

You really need TESTS done, stop blindly ruling out things until they have been checked. Of course there may be nothing wrong with things like the sound system, but this is why you check them, to rule them out (or in) and get closer to finding possibilities for things breaking!

I include belt tightness in that, that is something you can test yourself simply by touching it (or if you can't reach, use a long NON SHARP bar/socket extension etc at put pressure on it, engine OFF of course!!!!), push it in the middle (furthest away from both pulleys), not too hard, don't force it, just press the top of bar with one finger fairly firmly or use one finger on the belt if you can reach. If the belt doesn't deflect or barely deflects, it's overtightened. I think from memory doing the cinqs belt, i set it to have about 4-5mm of deflection, as i always have done and not killed one i've fitted yet on any car in the best part of a decade! Either that's because i'm doing something right or because i'm dead against slapping things like extra sound installs in cars Or going on your electrical guru's theory, maybe i've just been lucky and had a good run of them.....

Hi Andi, I ran your problem past my neighbour who's a mechanic (actually an engineer and I got told off for calling him a mechanic lol) and he said he'd never heard of so many alternators failing in such a short space of time and there had to be an underlying problem. As soon as I mentioned your sound system he said that was it and explained that normal alternators aren't designed to cope with that sort of load especially if your running an amp which I believe you are. He recommended either upgrading your alternator or doing what he did when he had a big ****-off sound system in his cav and fit an extra battery in the boot to power it.

Hope this helps and you get the problem solved soon

Please find borrow beg steal Rob anything.

Get a volt meter and tell us these things.

Volts when:
Engine off.
Engine on
Same again with amp power on and off
Same again with headlights fans indicators everything on and off

Belt tightness test with a bar

I agree with all of the above assessments...Andi, I'll bring my voltmeter to the show on Sunday.

Ok quick update.
Spoke to Arnold Clark as they're the nearest Fiat Garage to me.
Guy in the parts dept remembered me from when I was in getting prices before.
So they priced me up a Fiat Alternator £212.78 that's just to supply it. Belt at £11.26 & they are going to fit the Under tray as the Parts Manager said that water coming from underneath could be causing the failures (I suspect not) & when I asked to get a 90A Alternator which is used in the AC Models I was told that with my small Sound System that a higher output Alternator would make no difference.

The under tray is £193

So Dubster's going in on Wednesday Morning to them to have the work done, that way if anything goes wrong, then I'm not stuck with battling for the Guarantee.

Andi_F said:

Ok quick update.
Spoke to Arnold Clark as they're the nearest Fiat Garage to me.
Guy in the parts dept remembered me from when I was in getting prices before.
So they priced me up a Fiat Alternator £212.78 that's just to supply it. Belt at £11.26 & they are going to fit the Under tray as the Parts Manager said that water coming from underneath could be causing the failures (I suspect not) & when I asked to get a 90A Alternator which is used in the AC Models I was told that with my small Sound System that a higher output Alternator would make no difference.

The under tray is £193

So Dubster's going in on Wednesday Morning to them to have the work done, that way if anything goes wrong, then I'm not stuck with battling for the Guarantee.

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£212.78 + 11.26 + £193 + labour (should be one hour, but i suspect at AC that'll be around £70-£80) + VAT @20% = £596.44?!?!?!?!?!

wow.

A volt meter can be bought for about £20 (though it doesn't fix the issue, it should point to where the problem may lie meaning you don't need to spend even half the above!)

I would also add that IF the sound system did cause the fault, they won't honor the warranty.