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scott
Guest
what is remapping?
can any car (mine) be remap?
how does it work?
can it be done to my 1.6 hlx bravo?
can any car (mine) be remap?
how does it work?
can it be done to my 1.6 hlx bravo?
Currently reading:
remapping
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Mr Al
Guest
Post this "F.A.O Nige" His company does re-mapping.
Mr Al.
Mr Al.
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Anonymous
Guest
Re: Re: remapping
I don't think Nige can be bothered to touch the 1.6 - diesel gains seem to be better business.
I don't think Nige can be bothered to touch the 1.6 - diesel gains seem to be better business.
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YoGiS
Guest
Re: Re: Re: remapping
Try buying a piggyback...
will give u 10-15 HP/Nm
Try buying a piggyback...
will give u 10-15 HP/Nm
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scotty
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
what sort of gains would u be looking at if u were to get ur engine remapped?
obviously there is pros and cons of getting it done,what are they?
what sort of gains would u be looking at if u were to get ur engine remapped?
obviously there is pros and cons of getting it done,what are they?
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Tom
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
Pro: more power
Con: less MPG
Pro: more power
Con: less MPG
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Nigel
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
Surprisingly, not true at all Tom.
We have had reports back from some of our customers saying their economy had been the same but most said it has IMPROVED! This has taken us a little by surprise as well as we generally advise that if they use the extra power all the time then they will use more fuel, the same as they would if they booted it everywhere anyway! We have had one who has said that it has been worse since the map – but that was on a Multipla we took from 105 to 154BHP – and he has thrashed it all week on a test !
It appears that because the engine is running more efficiently when not being pushed that it outweighs any additional use when being pushed hard.
I did 900 miles in the Punto at 45.6 mpg average at the standard 80BHP tune and since putting on a seriously tuned map I have done nearly 1000 miles and averaged 48.9 - and as Daz and Jay will tell you - I don't hold back!
As for the comment "not bothered" - please do not decide on our behalf what we can be "bothered" to do or not. It all interests us, however we have to be realistic about what can be done, with what and for what. Yes we could provide a map for the 1.6 but to do so would cost the customers some £900 each due to the demand and therefore it does not make economical sense for us as a business to do - nor would an additional 10 BHP be a worthwhile increase for £900 to a customer. So please do not make unjust remarks like that, especially anonymously.
Cheers
Nigel
Surprisingly, not true at all Tom.
We have had reports back from some of our customers saying their economy had been the same but most said it has IMPROVED! This has taken us a little by surprise as well as we generally advise that if they use the extra power all the time then they will use more fuel, the same as they would if they booted it everywhere anyway! We have had one who has said that it has been worse since the map – but that was on a Multipla we took from 105 to 154BHP – and he has thrashed it all week on a test !
It appears that because the engine is running more efficiently when not being pushed that it outweighs any additional use when being pushed hard.
I did 900 miles in the Punto at 45.6 mpg average at the standard 80BHP tune and since putting on a seriously tuned map I have done nearly 1000 miles and averaged 48.9 - and as Daz and Jay will tell you - I don't hold back!
As for the comment "not bothered" - please do not decide on our behalf what we can be "bothered" to do or not. It all interests us, however we have to be realistic about what can be done, with what and for what. Yes we could provide a map for the 1.6 but to do so would cost the customers some £900 each due to the demand and therefore it does not make economical sense for us as a business to do - nor would an additional 10 BHP be a worthwhile increase for £900 to a customer. So please do not make unjust remarks like that, especially anonymously.
Cheers
Nigel
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Alan
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
so what are the cons? there must be some surely? Does it have any effect on engine life?
What is a good diesel to tune? I will probably have to get a diesel within the next 6-8 months due to the unlimited free diesel available to me from work!
If i couldn't find a car i liked which would be fun to drive i would probably get a jacked up hilux or something.
so what are the cons? there must be some surely? Does it have any effect on engine life?
What is a good diesel to tune? I will probably have to get a diesel within the next 6-8 months due to the unlimited free diesel available to me from work!
If i couldn't find a car i liked which would be fun to drive i would probably get a jacked up hilux or something.
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David
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
All the JTDs are great. The 2.4 can be tuned to 200bhp.
All the JTDs are great. The 2.4 can be tuned to 200bhp.
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Anonymous
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
cheers everyone for the advice .all very usefull.thank u for ur honest comment nigel...fair play to ya
cheers everyone for the advice .all very usefull.thank u for ur honest comment nigel...fair play to ya
C
Craig
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
Nige,
i'm assuming, (probably wrong) that it would cost £900 as you dont have a map for this ecu, and you would have to take time to develop one.
are there no forums that millenium users can subscribe to for map sharing?
just an idea, tell me to mind my own business if you like
Nige,
i'm assuming, (probably wrong) that it would cost £900 as you dont have a map for this ecu, and you would have to take time to develop one.
are there no forums that millenium users can subscribe to for map sharing?
just an idea, tell me to mind my own business if you like
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Tom
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
OK, it does depend on driving style
If you have more low down power you are less likely to thrash it but you still cannot get away from the simple fact that more power does need more petrol so when you do hoon around you will use more.
Also on diesels you are upping the turbo pressure which helps with the volumetric efficiency. This is something you cannot change on a non-turbo petrol engine.
as for the 1.6, Fiat for some unknown reason put a totally different ECU in the darn thing... oh well.
OK, it does depend on driving style
If you have more low down power you are less likely to thrash it but you still cannot get away from the simple fact that more power does need more petrol so when you do hoon around you will use more.
Also on diesels you are upping the turbo pressure which helps with the volumetric efficiency. This is something you cannot change on a non-turbo petrol engine.
as for the 1.6, Fiat for some unknown reason put a totally different ECU in the darn thing... oh well.
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Nigel
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
No Tom, this is the thing - it doesn't depend on driving style. I am a balls out everywhere driver and I get better economy - 75% of our customers are the same and have experienced the same results in the same way as frugal drivers have! Unlike old school tuning where you have many compromises, with this there appear to be fewer offs.
We will in time sort out the 1.8, please bear with us, I know a number of you have contacted me to register interest so we are looking at it seriously.
We are getting there - I just wish that Fiat group would keep there ECU development programme on hold - at least for a month without changing a code here and there to throw out yet another software code to ensure compatibility on!
N
No Tom, this is the thing - it doesn't depend on driving style. I am a balls out everywhere driver and I get better economy - 75% of our customers are the same and have experienced the same results in the same way as frugal drivers have! Unlike old school tuning where you have many compromises, with this there appear to be fewer offs.
We will in time sort out the 1.8, please bear with us, I know a number of you have contacted me to register interest so we are looking at it seriously.
We are getting there - I just wish that Fiat group would keep there ECU development programme on hold - at least for a month without changing a code here and there to throw out yet another software code to ensure compatibility on!
N
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Tom
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
Still dissagree with you there. It does not matter if its old school tuning or not. The only difference is you can get it a little more accurate with an ECU.
Still, they put webers on a Lotus Eliese and got 180BHP from it when the EFI version was 150. No engine mods.
Power comes in 2 ways, more ignition advance or more fuel. You can only do each of those to a certain extent. Too much advance, BANG, too much fuel and it runs rich and cold.
Volumetric efficiency is a factor of the induction system, the engine, the exhaust, the air temp, the humidity. There is no setting in the ECU for volumetric efficiency.
Turbo diesels, yes, they LOVE high boost and you will get more power for very little extra fuel but not non-turbo petrol engines.
Advancing the ignition will give the effect of 'more' power for the same fuel as you will get an increase in torque.
Anyway, the sorts of gains you get from remap are 4-6BHP midrange, not much top end so you can't really compare it with say adding 30BHP with cams, headwork etc..
Still dissagree with you there. It does not matter if its old school tuning or not. The only difference is you can get it a little more accurate with an ECU.
Still, they put webers on a Lotus Eliese and got 180BHP from it when the EFI version was 150. No engine mods.
Power comes in 2 ways, more ignition advance or more fuel. You can only do each of those to a certain extent. Too much advance, BANG, too much fuel and it runs rich and cold.
Volumetric efficiency is a factor of the induction system, the engine, the exhaust, the air temp, the humidity. There is no setting in the ECU for volumetric efficiency.
Turbo diesels, yes, they LOVE high boost and you will get more power for very little extra fuel but not non-turbo petrol engines.
Advancing the ignition will give the effect of 'more' power for the same fuel as you will get an increase in torque.
Anyway, the sorts of gains you get from remap are 4-6BHP midrange, not much top end so you can't really compare it with say adding 30BHP with cams, headwork etc..
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Tom
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
PS. Nige I thougt you'd have learnt its a bad idea to argue with me on technical issues?
How about a free remap on my 1.6? If the MPG goes up I'll happily support you
So far after adding the induction kit it has improved on MPG but thats down to the truly diabolical design of the fiat one.
PS. Nige I thougt you'd have learnt its a bad idea to argue with me on technical issues?
How about a free remap on my 1.6? If the MPG goes up I'll happily support you
So far after adding the induction kit it has improved on MPG but thats down to the truly diabolical design of the fiat one.
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Bahney
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
any chance of doing it to my 1.4 ?
mods will be
twin exit exhaust (both pipes active)
de-cat
induction kit
fast road cam
will it be worth a ecu remap ? even for 3 or 4 bhp i don't care i just want more torque
planning to have thes complete by feb (got my loan today) so my 8 week bravo plan starts early jan so feb time i would be after haveing it done, what gain would i get ?would it be worth it ? obvioustly if you havent done a 1.4 before then i assume u wouldent know but i don't mind being the guinnea pig
thanks in advance
ps. i e-mailed u when you first launched angel tuning, this was your reply "With the 1.4 we would need to change the chip to a newer technology and then create and engine map to improve it. I have had a couple of enquiries on this, if I get more than 5 people who will definently go for it then I will sort something out. The cost for this though is likely to be around 230.00 GBP as we will need to change the hardware etc" so has there been any more interest, if not then i will grab all the 1.4 owners by the scruff of the neck and forse them to cough up the cash, lol
any chance of doing it to my 1.4 ?
mods will be
twin exit exhaust (both pipes active)
de-cat
induction kit
fast road cam
will it be worth a ecu remap ? even for 3 or 4 bhp i don't care i just want more torque
planning to have thes complete by feb (got my loan today) so my 8 week bravo plan starts early jan
so feb time i would be after haveing it done, what gain would i get ?would it be worth it ? obvioustly if you havent done a 1.4 before then i assume u wouldent know but i don't mind being the guinnea pig thanks in advance
ps. i e-mailed u when you first launched angel tuning, this was your reply "With the 1.4 we would need to change the chip to a newer technology and then create and engine map to improve it. I have had a couple of enquiries on this, if I get more than 5 people who will definently go for it then I will sort something out. The cost for this though is likely to be around 230.00 GBP as we will need to change the hardware etc" so has there been any more interest, if not then i will grab all the 1.4 owners by the scruff of the neck and forse them to cough up the cash, lol
T
Tom
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
As you are going for a cam it would be best to have a rolling road session. However good Nige's maps are, they are for stock engines.
Superchips will do you a new chip though. Modern ODB ECUs can be reprogrammed in place, older ones in the Mk1's and earlier cars mostly need new chips fitting with the new maps in them.
As you are going for a cam it would be best to have a rolling road session. However good Nige's maps are, they are for stock engines.
Superchips will do you a new chip though. Modern ODB ECUs can be reprogrammed in place, older ones in the Mk1's and earlier cars mostly need new chips fitting with the new maps in them.
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Nige
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
Tom, we wont argue with you on an area where you know what you are talking about, but we are doing this and these are the results we are receiving.
Surely Volumetric Efficiency is an outcome of factors, not a setting – which is why it is not on the ECU!
Anyway, if you are changing the cams, we agree this has to be done on a rolling road and would never suggest otherwise. The engine mapping work carried out thus far will work very well with most “bolt on” mods such as exhausts, induction kits etc and enjoys greater output if indeed these items are added (or in place). It is all down to R&D, we could set you up on an R&R session and develop a map for it, but by the time you have added a days session, our time, our equipment costs etc the charge adds up – that's why it is not in our business model and we don't offer it – lets be honest – we want to make money, that's why we work!
On the 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8, we have tried to explain that the cost to the customer will far outweigh the gains available. On the older cars (mk1 on the Bravo/a) we would indeed need to replace the existing chip in order to reprogramme it, and that's before developing one for a stock engine. I would suggest in this case you go to Superchips and ask them for a quote. Even with 5 or more owners our R&D costs will add hundreds to the price and for 4 - 5BHP on the 1.4 it will not be worth it.
And finally, Tom, we don't do free remaps for endorsement – if I had a pound for every tech head on a forum that said exactly what you did we……… work……Christmas…until……not… lol
Nige
Tom, we wont argue with you on an area where you know what you are talking about
, but we are doing this and these are the results we are receiving.Surely Volumetric Efficiency is an outcome of factors, not a setting – which is why it is not on the ECU!
Anyway, if you are changing the cams, we agree this has to be done on a rolling road and would never suggest otherwise. The engine mapping work carried out thus far will work very well with most “bolt on” mods such as exhausts, induction kits etc and enjoys greater output if indeed these items are added (or in place). It is all down to R&D, we could set you up on an R&R session and develop a map for it, but by the time you have added a days session, our time, our equipment costs etc the charge adds up – that's why it is not in our business model and we don't offer it – lets be honest – we want to make money, that's why we work!
On the 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8, we have tried to explain that the cost to the customer will far outweigh the gains available. On the older cars (mk1 on the Bravo/a) we would indeed need to replace the existing chip in order to reprogramme it, and that's before developing one for a stock engine. I would suggest in this case you go to Superchips and ask them for a quote. Even with 5 or more owners our R&D costs will add hundreds to the price and for 4 - 5BHP on the 1.4 it will not be worth it.
And finally, Tom, we don't do free remaps for endorsement – if I had a pound for every tech head on a forum that said exactly what you did we……… work……Christmas…until……not… lol
Nige
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Tom
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
Darn Anyway, I know the gains on the 1.6 are pretty small. It needs work in other places.
I can however get a Marelli ECU, drop in replacement for £700 BUT its blank. Add about 2 days to get it to start and half a day on the rollers getting it right and its a bit more than £900
Darn
Anyway, I know the gains on the 1.6 are pretty small. It needs work in other places.I can however get a Marelli ECU, drop in replacement for £700 BUT its blank.
Add about 2 days to get it to start and half a day on the rollers getting it right and its a bit more than £900
N
Nigel
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: remapping
Tom,if you do that I may be able to help if you go that route. If I can "lift" a standard map from a 1.6 from say a Stilo which will be Euro 3, it may give a starting point to load onto the the blank. It would obviously need work from that point but it may get you started quicker.
If I can find a Euro 3 1.6 Bravo/a (yeah right!)it may be even easier as it wont be clouded with anything else.
You would have to look into how you write to that ECU, as its not one I know too much about - although they all work in a similar fashion - writing to them is a minefield!
If I can help in any way drop me a line.
Nige
Tom,if you do that I may be able to help if you go that route. If I can "lift" a standard map from a 1.6 from say a Stilo which will be Euro 3, it may give a starting point to load onto the the blank. It would obviously need work from that point but it may get you started quicker.
If I can find a Euro 3 1.6 Bravo/a (yeah right!)it may be even easier as it wont be clouded with anything else.
You would have to look into how you write to that ECU, as its not one I know too much about - although they all work in a similar fashion - writing to them is a minefield!
If I can help in any way drop me a line.
Nige