I really want to carry out the usual modifications to my Bravo (57i, exhaust, springs etc.) but I'm a bit worried by the insurance implications. I modified my last car (Cinquecento Sporting) and got hammered by Direct Line.

How far can you modify without your insurance being changed?

Cheers

John

Insurance

It depends on your insurance compnay. I used to be with the AA and after fitting a set of £400 alloys they increased my premium by £198.34 Why i asked them, cos it adds to the risk. So i went and splashed out on a clifford concept 50x (£400) and they was NO reduction. Why? they couldn't tell me!! Going on past experinces I would of thought that it would of reduced my premium by £198.34. Not so!

I never say anything about my sterio thats the risk i take. The problem being if you fit an exhaust and 57i and somebody went into the back of you (while you were stationary, at lights or even parked outside your house) and wrote your car off, if the insurance company looked at the car and saw the mods, they would not compensate you, Even if the mods did not affect the accident cos you were stationary!!!!
The best thing to do is forcast your mods like you've done and start ringing round other companies, Adrian Flux, Performance Direct, Bell Direct are a few that can be found in the back of magazines from Fast car to Autotrader.

Out of the things you've mentioned i would say you could get away with the springs. Just tell the company you have fitted new springs, if they ask if it's been lowered tell them 5-10mm.

BUT if the insurance company decides not to insure you after a crash you'll be even more shafted.

We are in a losing battle John.

Steve

Insurance

Thanks for the reply Steve.

It seems the mainstream insurers don't want any risks at all and claim it keeps the premiums down (yeah right!!). I do know the one thing all insurers hate is 'chipped' cars for some reason.

Cheers

John

changes = bigger risk, it is obvious

Bad news is that a person who modifies his car is a bigger insurance risk (e.g. young, speeding, and careless, at times)

Look in any town in UK or Ireland and I bet you that the vast majority of cars that are speeding and driving round recklessly are ones that have been modified. In my town it happens all the time - frequently I am raced by kids in novas, fiestas, 106 etc. when I am ambling on way to Tesco in my HGT (stupid big exhausts, lowered springs & superchips on a 1.0-1.4 lite engine is not going to match that).

My advice is don't waste the money on mods, put it to a better car e.g no amount of mods. to my hgt will make it handle as well as the wifes alfa spider.

Mods/insurance

John,have you tried priveledge insu.I lowered and fitted a k&n filter to a vw golf and got priveledge to insu it for less than some companies were quoting for the standard car.

And replying to Bobs comments about spending the money on a faster,better handling car,I think he's missed the point.
My opinion on mods is that they are normally carried out to personalise the car,make it stand out from the other standard cars,make it go better than the standard model,not to make it out-perform sports cars.
How easy does Bob think it is to buy and insure an Alfa Spider when you're under 25.Most mods are only in the hundreds of pounds region anyway,no where near the price of a Spider.
Modding the car and doing a lot of the work yourself makes the car that little bit more special.It may not be to everyones taste,but as long as you like it,who cares!
Sorry to go on,but if you've never modified a car ,you'll never know.

Jay

Alfa Spider??

I drove a GTV, they really don't handle all that well, and the driving position is terrible. They make look great but there are better coupes for the money. And the thing about modifying, it's for personalisation, to make it stand out as different. Not all view it as a bigger risk; for instance, if you do a complete modification yourself (bodykit, wheels, suspension, etc.) then you may be viewed as an enthusiast and will therefore take better care of your car and park it in safer places than a normal driver.

come on, who are you kidding

interesting to hear your views. I still think that I am closer to mark.

1. No one addressed point I made about fact that majority of people who drive like tools tend to drive modified/personalised cars - fact.

2. Anyway, take a look back through these pages -huge majority of "tuning" is banal - few bhp here, 17inch wheels there! I don't think that any of that makes a difference. All the modified cars are same - wheels that are too big (stick out side of wheel arch), and massive 4" single or twin pipes coming from stock 1.0 - 1.3l 4 cylinder - friends 89 carerra 4 3.6l flat six has one 2.5" exhaust - so yeah it make sense!

I also love the belief that many modifiers have that they can outperform the job of car company when it comes to getting best performace. Do you think that if Fiat thought 17" wheels gave a bravo that bit extra then they would not fit them to something like the hgt - having tried many combinations of suspension/wheels/tyres/sizes Fiat settle for 15" with appropriately calibrated and rated dampers etc. to give best ALL ROUND performance. But then what do they no next to a expert.

3. I heard of guy who spent 1500 quid on 17" wheels & tyres - don't tell me he could not afford the higher premium of a better car! The "hundereds quid here and there" soon add up - take a look at evo magazine few months ago and this months top gear on buying guides for gtv/spider for example - not that expensive second hand - and the same applies to many cars.

4. Regarding gtv/spider not being that good at handling - yeah right - Go check any magazine review to see how far off mark you are.
e.g. evo gives 4/5 stars

For driving position reach & height adjust on steering wheel - so most should fit.

so ....

Modifying

I agree that people modify their cars to look better and outperform the car in standard form.
It is also a hobby and interest people have in cars and modifying. You don't look like just another car on the road, but an individual.

Also the standard suspension on nearly any standard car is designed for comfort and not for the enthusiast. The main reason behind cars not having big wheels etc as standard is due to cost and comfort, why do Fiat offer bigger wheels and lowering springs as extras. The exhaust on most cars are more restrictive than a sports one as manufacturers have to comply with sound levels (not all people would want a sporty note to their exhaust).

When spending £1500 on wheels, if you bought a better car then most would still come with wheels that look too small.

Harry

Modifying

I agree that people modify their cars to look better and outperform the car in standard form.
It is also a hobby and interest people have in cars and modifying. You don't look like just another car on the road, but an individual.

Also the standard suspension on nearly any standard car is designed for comfort and not for the enthusiast. The main reason behind cars not having big wheels etc as standard is due to cost and comfort, why do Fiat offer bigger wheels and lowering springs as extras. The exhaust on most cars are more restrictive than a sports one as manufacturers have to comply with sound levels (not all people would want a sporty note to their exhaust).

When spending £1500 on wheels, if you bought a better car, most would still come with wheels that look too small with large tyres to absorb bumps.

Harry

its marketing

Options such as lowering & bigger wheels on new cars are usually a marketing ploy.

There are numerous examples in reviews of cars that run much better on standard set up rather than the mod'ed version used my marketing on press days. to Two examples of enginnering vs. marketing, from the many reviews .
1. My HGT has standard 15" wheels, before I bought I saw two reviews of the hgt that were tested with the optional 16" and lower profile tyres - both reviews - came out in favour of sticking with standard 15" setup for best overall performance.
2. Current Car review of alfa 147 illustrates this point again, although it has option of 17", cars tested were all running 16" - reviewer suspected engineers had made this choice as they would be sensitive to excessive criticism from UK press about poorer ride, a common fault with fiat group cars.

Big wheels are marketing fashion; golf gti has grown from 14" to 16" standard in two generations. If 17" upwards are so good for the "performance driver" can you explain use of 15/16" on rally cars for tarmac.

modifying

Yes most of the dipsticks run modded cars but they're all fords and vauxhalls, so why do corsas, fiestas etc. have low insurance??

About wheel size, ever seen a rally car? they run 18s because the driver doesn't mind the harder ride. The setup chosen by FIAT has to fit everyone, yes, even on an HGT, I've seen grannies driving them. And if you look in magazines they all complain about the suspension being to hard while I think it's quite soft so does that meen the setup is best for me? I don't think that you can argue what's best. If the manufacturers are so good why do they go elsewhere for the tuning on their rally cars?.

I do agree with you on exhaust size though, it's the mistaken belief that you have to reduce back pressure to 0 when in fact the exhaust has to be a certain length and diameter for peak performance, hence where the term "tuned exhaust" comes from.

As for the GTV, I don't care what the magazines say, I drove it, the driving position was terrible (and yes I did adjust it) and the feedback from the road wasn't great. I did really want one prior to borrowing one for a weekend, that put me off them. I've driven better cars for the money.

Modifying

Answering your question as to why in reviews cars with larger wheels and lower profile tyres perform worse, this is because lower profile tyres dont absorb as much shock from bumps therefore giving a rougher ride, something that a 'normal' driver would not want. Enthusiast on the other hand are willing to put up with this due to the reduced flexibility of the tyre sidewall, resulting in improved traction round corners. These tests are conducted bearing the average driver in mind. Don't get the 'average' driver mixed up with an 'enthusiast' or 'modifier'. Any test of suspension will tell you that uprated progressive springs provide a far better performance over standard.

Also why do touring cars have 18" and upwards wheels with minimum sidewall. This is to give the car better handling. Rally cars operate different size wheels for different conditions, smaller ones with larger tyres for the wet and gravel/mud (14") then larger ones with low profile tyres for the tarmac (16").

I accept your view that there are cars that look 'cheesy' (e.g huge exhaust pipes), but its all down to personal opinion, which everyone has a right to.

Where did you dream up that Bob

You say, and i quote, "If 17" upwards are so good for the "performance driver" can you explain use of 15/16" on rally cars for tarmac".
If you weren't such a know it all you'd find that your totally contradicting yourself as the top tarmac rally cars run on 18" wheels. By top i mean the Focus WRC, Corolla WRC, Impreza WRC, 206 WRC etc..........