Hi all from Oz. Newbie here. We recently purchased a second hand 2015 Fiat Ducato 130 3lt Turbo Diesel motorhome. We have had the coils on the front suspension changed to lift the front up as we were bottoming out on the highway let alone anywhere off the highway. We have had the subsequent wheel alignment but now we have problems with rocking and rolling movement from side to side so much so that we don't feel it is safe to drive. Most noticeable was on the motorway doing only about 80-90kls with vehicles passing us in the same direction. With any vehicle that passed us being a standard car or trucks the motorhome rocked so much and veered away so as to make it difficult to steer it straight. I have spoken with both the people who have done the wheel alignment and they have stated that they are uncertain why this should be happening. I have also spoken with Fiat who are stating that because we raised the front end we have compromised the handling. The coils were the Kings coils specially made for this purpose so now we are wondering if it could be possible that the shocks/struts may not be up to the task (and may have also been contributing to the bottoming out noises we experienced initially). Does anyone have any experience in this area? We have spent considerable money already and before we are up for expensive shocks would be interested to know if there are any other suggestions to improve the handling. I followed my husband who was driving the motorhome and the rocking and rolling from side to side was huge and made me feel sick just looking at it. Cannot believe the new coils would do this. Appreciate any suggestions as I won't drive it as I think it is unsafe.

Mmmm. I spent some time investigating before lifting the front of my 2013 Ducato. Saw the King springs with their 50mm lift, using standard dampers. Didn't like the idea of stronger springs with inadequate dampers. Investigated further and found that ALKO have engineered a front suspension lift kit that is now fitted as standard to many new motorhomes over a certain length. The kit lifts the front by 40mm and has uprated dampers to handle the stronger springs. The kit is also approved by FIAT.
I fitted the kit - not cheap. The height is good and body control is good. I believe the steering is not quite as good as standard due to lift in front. Can't have it both ways....
I have subsequently fitted all terrain tyres to improve grip on gravel roads. The grip improved but the steering on bitumen deteriorated further. Wish I had not done that. I would look at staying with bitumen road type tyres, maybe a slightly larger size, to improve ride and correct the speedo. Hope my experience helps you.
Cheers
Ian.

Hi

It would help if you could give some idea of the size, measured weight and body style of your vehicle. I assume it is coachbuilt and not a conversion of a standard van ?

If the front suspension is bottoming out on ordinary roads, it suggests that the springs are too weak for the weight on the front. This will make the front sit too low and reduce the travel before the bump stops come into play. The ideal would be stronger springs which restore the ride height to standard, or maybe a little above standard. Setting things 2 inches above standard sounds a bit extreme to me, and will alter the suspension and steering geometry from the standard settings. The other thing to check is that the dampers are working as designed and aren't tired. If the vehicle is particularly long and has a rear overhang, it may be prone to fore-aft pitching so the rear suspension may also need attention.


A similar set of arguments applies at the rear, though it is worth noting that for a Fiat panel van the hollow rubber "bump stops" are designed to act as auxiliary springs. An unladen van will have a gap of about an inch between the leaf and the rubber spring, but a van conversion motorhome will typically sit on the rubber with no gap. A coachbuilt may have a non-Fiat chassis with a different setup. Some owners have fitted semi-air rear suspension where the steel springs are assisted with pressurised air springs. Pressure can be chosen to trim the rear ride height by a modest amount.


The sideways swaying suggests that the spring stiffness and damping in roll is not enough. This may be exacerbated if your vehicle has a high centre of gravity. Travelling with a full low slung water tanks can slightly help. The anti-roll bars at the front (and sometimes fitted at the rear) help to resist roll, so check that all the linkages and bushes are OK.

Copy of an old add on the right hand border of this page .

These are AIRRIDE manufactured front air struts for a Fiat Ducato X250 van, or Citroen/Peugeot versions.
They are complete with bearings and top mounts as in the pics and are in excellent condition.
These are the heavy duty triple bag version and are a straight swop out for your existing front struts with coil springs. (When fitting on my van I had to create additional clearance for the airbag not to rub. In discussions with Airride, they said they had not come across this before though)
The ride is much improved and you can control the ride height if you wish. I used them with semi air on the rear.
Had these on my van for only 3000 miles and removed before selling to put on next van but plans have changed so now for sale.
£765,offers considered.
See AIRRIDE website for more info-
airride.co.uk/air/shop/van-motorhome-pickup/fiat/ducato/x230/fiat-ducato-heavy-duty-front-struts/
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Thank you so much for the reply. We have spoken to a suspension place this morning and they were going to see what shocks they could get that would be heavier duty and compatible with the stiffer King springs we have had fitted but with the info that Al-ko make a kit that is specific for this purpose we might be better to bite the bullet and just go the AL-KO ACS and see if that does the trick. While we had the vehicle looked over this morning they found movement in the right hand ball joint which we will need to go back to Fiat with as it is still under warranty. Hopefully this will fix the front end. Do you think we should be looking at anything at the rear. The vehicle is 25.5 feet long, 3 mtrs high with cab over the front and approx 4495kg GVM.

Thank you will do.

Hi Ian Thanks for the reply. Seems that what we have had done is exactly what you were concerned about. Stiffer springs but original struts. While I don't like spending more money it might be better to just cut our losses and go the ACS and remove the springs recently fitted. Maybe that will go someway to getting a better ride and reduce the issues we have potentially created by getting new springs but not the shocks.

Hiek said:

Hi Ian Thanks for the reply. Seems that what we have had done is exactly what you were concerned about. Stiffer springs but original struts. While I don't like spending more money it might be better to just cut our losses and go the ACS and remove the springs recently fitted. Maybe that will go someway to getting a better ride and reduce the issues we have potentially created by getting new springs but not the shocks.

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As I said above, there was some steering vagueness after lift but not roll as you describe.
If you phone ALKO in Melbourne, they will tell you the closest authorised fitter to where you live. You haven't said where you are so can't help there. I'm just north of Brisbane.

Ian.

Hi Ian

We are in Curra so north of Gympie. I spoke with Stewart from SR Automotive at Kippa Ring this afternoon. He is very switched on and is the nominated service agent for AL-KO and has assured me that we can get the whole ACS kit fitted and aligned and that it will totally improve the handling and ride. Unfortunately I won't drive it the way it is so will have to see when my husband can get a day off work as they are about 2.5 hours away from us and will have to navigate that abortion they call the roadworks around the Sunshine Coast. While he said it is only about 4 hours labour it will take them most of the day and we would have to have it to them around 8am in the morning. Might mean hubby stays overnight down there as the traffic is horrendous coming back north through the Sunshine Coast in peak hour. If this fixes the issue it will be money well spent. Quote approx $1865 for supply, fit and wheel alignment for the 2100kg AL-KO ACS set. Can't thank you enough for your input and help and everyone else who commented. He also recommended airbag suspension for the rear as we have a large overhang but will get the front done first and go from there

Hiek said:

Hi Ian

We are in Curra so north of Gympie. I spoke with Stewart from SR Automotive at Kippa Ring this afternoon. He is very switched on and is the nominated service agent for AL-KO and has assured me that we can get the whole ACS kit fitted and aligned and that it will totally improve the handling and ride. Unfortunately I won't drive it the way it is so will have to see when my husband can get a day off work as they are about 2.5 hours away from us and will have to navigate that abortion they call the roadworks around the Sunshine Coast. While he said it is only about 4 hours labour it will take them most of the day and we would have to have it to them around 8am in the morning. Might mean hubby stays overnight down there as the traffic is horrendous coming back north through the Sunshine Coast in peak hour. If this fixes the issue it will be money well spent. Quote approx $1865 for supply, fit and wheel alignment for the 2100kg AL-KO ACS set. Can't thank you enough for your input and help and everyone else who commented. He also recommended airbag suspension for the rear as we have a large overhang but will get the front done first and go from there

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Stewart is a mate of mine. I was instrumental in getting him appointed as an ALKO agent. He runs a nice setup. He has done quite a few of them now and knows what he is doing. He also has an 8 tonne hoist and good wheel alignment gear so can do a full job. He services my 2013 Avida EYRE which is similar in size to yours.
Sunshine Coast "abortion" has improved a bit lately. Not as bad as it was. Best to wait until school hols are over to avoid traffic on highway. Pretty bad at moment.
If hubby was to drive down really early, he could avoid the worst of it and ask Stewart if he can get it done as a priority so he can get away by 2 or 2.30. He could park outside Stewart's business for a while if he arrives too early in the morning. Stewart usually has place open by 7.30am.
No need to look at airbags for rear at this stage. Any extra height does contribute to vehicle roll. I find that reducing tyre pressures to sensible levels helps a lot with ride comfort. I run a TPMS which indicates pressure and temperature in each tyre and have adjusted accordingly - loads vary side to side. My offside carries quite a bit more than drivers side rear due to frig, microwave, toilet, batteries and largest storage cupboard all being on one side. Each rig varies of course and yours has a luton peak which adds to front weight. Would suggest you find a set of scales that can give you the loading on each wheel separately and then use a formula to arrive at pressures. Stewart may have a set of scales as he is heavily involved in rallying. Your tyres are probably the Michelin camper tyres which carry 1300kg @ 80psi @ 160kph maximum. These figures are imprinted on the tyre wall.
If, for instance, your load on a particular tyre is 975kg and you do have the above tyres, you can do the formula 975/1300X80 and then take 10% off for much lower speeds. That would equate to 54psi. Hope you can follow that.
You can email me at [email protected] if you would like to keep in touch.
Cheers

Ian.

Hi Ian. Makes total sense what you said about the formula for calculating tyre pressure. I have emailed you separately. Thank you again.

I have a van I use for work ...it used to ride too low so I fitted rear air assistors in place of the bump stops and the +50mm King springs the same as you with standard front struts.
Fully freighted at 3500KG + it handles well with no body roll and feels steady as a rock at 70mph + in all weather and wind conditions .
I know mines a van and not a motor home but I would look else where before spending lots of money on expensive ALKO bits .
What are your lower arm bushes like ? have they gone soft or started to delaminate ?
What are the ARB bushes like ? Was the wheel alignment checked and corrected ?
Uprated springs are not going to cause it to weave and wallow on smooth roads even if the struts are weak . Are the bushes in the rear spring hangers worn ?
Loads to check before diving into spending on more stuff that may not fix it .

Thank you for your advice. I am not a mechanic nor is my husband. We have already been misled once by a suspension "expert" who suggested the 50mm Kings. The vehicle drove fine before these were put in but was too low and bottomed out at the front. As we live at best over 1 hour away from anyone who can do even the most basic of checks (and more like 2.5 hours) we don't have the luxury of taking it back and forth so we are hoping the next option will see all the things you have raised checked and the problem identified. The vehicle is still under warranty till Feb next year so if an item arises that looks like a warranty issue we will contact Fiat (more than an hour away from us) and see if that can be addressed as a separate issue to raising the front end. The vehicle is nearly 5000kg and as higher than is wide so we expect some movement but not to the degree it is now. I appreciate your thoughts.

Given your all up weight of 5000KG I'm not surprised it's bottoming out ....
I don't think the Kings are rated for a 5000kg vehicle unless specifically stated .
It must have uprated struts from factory and ALKO is probably the best way to go ....at least with air you can dial in the ride and spring rate you require at the push of a button.
Next time leave the 2 pet Shire horses at home when you go for a drive ;-) .. or consider a 200 series Landcruiser stretched and set up for camping ;-)

Hiek said:

Thank you for your advice. I am not a mechanic nor is my husband. We have already been misled once by a suspension "expert" who suggested the 50mm Kings. The vehicle drove fine before these were put in but was too low and bottomed out at the front. As we live at best over 1 hour away from anyone who can do even the most basic of checks (and more like 2.5 hours) we don't have the luxury of taking it back and forth so we are hoping the next option will see all the things you have raised checked and the problem identified. The vehicle is still under warranty till Feb next year so if an item arises that looks like a warranty issue we will contact Fiat (more than an hour away from us) and see if that can be addressed as a separate issue to raising the front end. The vehicle is nearly 5000kg and as higher than is wide so we expect some movement but not to the degree it is now. I appreciate your thoughts.

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I would hope your 5000kg was not correct unless you have an Optimum with a lazy axle. The standard Fiat chassis has a max of 4500kg.
Time to get those weights checked

Ian.

My mistake on weight. It has a GVM of 4495kg. Standard suspension.

It was my mistake Ian. It has a GVM of 4495kg. When I took it over the weighbridge originally with me, a full tank of fuel and full tank of water it weighed in at just under 4100kg.

Hiek said:

It was my mistake Ian. It has a GVM of 4495kg. When I took it over the weighbridge originally with me, a full tank of fuel and full tank of water it weighed in at just under 4100kg.

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Excellent. Plenty of room for load. Less the better of course. I run about 4100kg fully loaded incl fuel and water.

Ian.

Yes don't know where my head was when I put the other figure in LOL