Hi All,

Was hoping to get some advice, I have a Fiat Ducato 2013, Engine size:2287cc, (Multijet 130), which is no longer starting as the fuel injectors have gone. The garage has told me that all four are leaking when they did a leak off test, however they are ceased in place so they cant get them out for a proper look.

At the moment I am being quoted for £2100 as a minimum for the replacement of them, likely more as they might need to hire in a specialist to remove them if they are too fused in place.

I am currently weighing up the options; just bite the bullet and pay to have them sorted as the garage has quoted. Look at getting a set of second hand injectors. Look at getting a second hand cylinder head due to the fused issue. Or look at replacing the engine with a second hand one, including injectors.

Thoughts?

Robin.

Rgledable said:

Hi All,



Was hoping to get some advice, I have a Fiat Ducato 2013, Engine size:2287cc, (Multijet 130), which is no longer starting as the fuel injectors have gone. The garage has told me that all four are leaking when they did a leak off test, however they are ceased in place so they cant get them out for a proper look.



At the moment I am being quoted for £2100 as a minimum for the replacement of them, likely more as they might need to hire in a specialist to remove them if they are too fused in place.



I am currently weighing up the options; just bite the bullet and pay to have them sorted as the garage has quoted. Look at getting a set of second hand injectors. Look at getting a second hand cylinder head due to the fused issue. Or look at replacing the engine with a second hand one, including injectors.



Thoughts?



Robin.

Click to expand...

Only had the issue on my first 57 plate 120 bhp Ducato
Cost me £4500 as the bolts as always snapped requiring specialist works,
4 injectors
Labour
Parts
Cam belt kit
Service

£4.5k

Didn’t solve the issue!

Bennett’s Watford supposed Diesel specialists miss diagnosed the £120 fuel pressure regulator as injectors

(They refused to do the work so I had to find a garage that would)

Bennett’s pulled a blinder there

Hi

Siezed injector clamp bolts, and siezed injectors are a common problem and need specialist attention. The problem is often corrosion after rain water ingress due to the design shortcomings of the Ducato scuttle. I don't see the point of removing injectors just to test them, having gone that far it would be pointless not to replace them with a new set.

It seems highly unlikely to me that all 4 injectors have "gone". Even if the batch of injectors fitted in the factory were faulty, one would expect a gradual deterioration with first one degrading, then another etc. I also suspect that even with injector leakage the van would still start.

I strongly recommend you explore other avenues, and park the faulty injector theory until you have a second opinion and have eliminated other causes.

Anthony489 said:

It seems highly unlikely to me that all 4 injectors have "gone". Even if the batch of injectors fitted in the factory were faulty, one would expect a gradual deterioration with first one degrading, then another etc. I also suspect that even with injector leakage the van would still start

Click to expand...

Not starting is exactly what happens. As the injector leakage increases gradually or otherwise the rail pressure produced during cranking falls. If the ECU doesnt read sufficient pressure it wont fire at all. As the leakage reaches the maximum threshold the pressure could only drop a fraction of a bar to go from starting to non starting.

That being said low pressure could be a lot of reasons. Did they say what the leakoff measurements were?

Injector removal might not be that costly compared to the labour to swap the engine.

Have a look on ebay you can be lucky and get genuine injectors at reasonable prices.

Not my area of expertise, but some thoughts around the views above.

A leak off test is a valuable diagnostic process, but needs to be done methodically.
Once pressurised, the pressure should hold, but a pressure drop needs to be diagnosed. Possible leak points can be, leaking injectors, into the cylinders, leaking internally so excess is being let go along the leak off pipes, or as suggested above, a pressure regulator can leak.

If I remember correctly, the possible leak points can be closed off during testing, to prove which is the problem. The leak off from the pressure regulator would determine if that was the culprit.

Perhaps a bit of history is needed.
It is unusual for all four injectors to fail at once. As said, leak off due to wear & tear should be gradual, so some poor starting or running symptoms should have been apparent before final failure.
If the injectors are leaking into cylinders, initial startup should create a lot of blue/grey smoke as the unburnt fuel passes through. Have you noticed anything like this over the last few months?
If there is a leak from injectors or pressure regulator back to the tank, this should just show as an extended time to pressurise.
A sudden failure would point more to one component than four. Pressure regulator more likely, if pump is capable of providing the required pressure.

Is this garage a diesel specialist? Or one that just sees a few diesels? Do they seem confident about their diagnosis, and are they willing to swallow the cost if the work does not effect a cure? That question might make them reconsider.

Injectors are removed using a little slide hammer. Is this what they are using, or are they just pulling with their hands, pliers, screwdrivers, etc. Getting the injectors out of brother's 25 year old Land Rover was a fight, but they all came out after much slide hammering, a lot of penetrating oil, and some special language.

There are diesel specialists around, that really know what they are doing. They will be able to accurately diagnose the issue, possibly have a suggestion before seeing the vehicle if proper details are given, and will know how best to extract the injectors if necessary. Might be an idea to sek out your nearest specialist, often a Bosch outlet.

They should be seized in by design!

The common rail is about 20000 psi pressure.
So the injectors must be in very firmly.

However, They should be able to get them out?
I did a visual of mine. looked similar to the Merc.
There is a special tool to extract.

Go to another place. Get another quote.

Purely for my own knowledge...
How did they determine they are leaking?
How do you test that in the vehicle?

Can multiECUScan show that?
Might have to run mine and see how mine are!
That is a great thing to have advanced warning!

Probably of little help...just watched a video on seized injector extraction.

The tools used were pretty specialized and heavy duty.
Really, its all about the right tools for the job.

if the standard extraction tool does not work.
I am guessing years of extreme thermal cycling has almost welded them in?
It's understandable.
Frictional forces would be huge with the length of the injectors also.

Sorry ...but ...You may have to pay the piper...
It does sound steep tho. Get more quotes.
I have not got to my injectors yet...thank goodness!
Perhaps others can give relative pricing?

Hi Peter IceVovo - as matter of interest I also have 2005 2.8JTD 244 engine and broke down half way around Australia in middle of WA (I live in Brisbane) so had a very expensive flat-top transfer to Geralton where they diagnosed "faulty injector". I was a long way from home so agreed to pay whatever was needed to get sorted. It took a week and AUS$4,500. Then 15 min after we headed off again it failed identically!! Back to dealer and eventually turned out to be $8 injector plug end!! I now have a spare set of injectors!!