Before everyone scolds me for laziness, I really did a search everywhere but I believe, not sure, I have a 2.8idTD and all references were to 2001 JTD's, etc.

My Motorhome was built on a 2000 FIAT Ducato chassis that I believe is run about by a 2.8idTD engine. I am a bit confused but the Motorhome was a 2001 model but the dealer pulled a background sheet for me once and it says the chassis delivery was in YR 2000. So I am assuming idTD. Would anything under the bonnet show me definitively that it is truly idTD? I.E. What does the JTD set-up differ from the idTD, anything obvious that I could look for?

In any case, the good little boy that could, now over 350,000Km, has an illness. When I start him up he'll run for a random period then peter out like he just ran out of fuel. Immediately re-starting may be to no avail but if I wait:30 or so seconds it ticks over with ease, runs for a while, and then runs out of fuel again.

I know this is a tired subject but any recommendations on this engine basis, if it is an idTD, as to what may be the issue? If the basis is truly the idTD then there seems to be more simplicity to my fuel system. What could be causing the intermittent but inevitable fuel loss?

Thanks, Guy's, I know I can count on you, You have been invaluable for over 15 years. I know I'll get a good recommendation here before I go poking about under the bonnet.

Jtd has electrically operated injectors if you don't have wires connected to each injector then you don't have a jtd.

Check for
blocked air filter
Blocked fuel filter

If its not a jtd(common rail diesel)

But is idtd check for Bad engine stop solenoid and or poor connection on stop solenoid.

There are other things to check but start with those and report back

Good luck

Jack

jackwhoo said:

Jtd has electrically operated injectors if you don't have wires connected to each injector then you don't have a jtd.

Click to expand...

I think an easier check would be to look for the Engine Control Unit (ECU).

The ECU is fixed to the inside of the LHS front wing, close to the air filter. It is enclosed in a black plastic box about 1.5" thick and 8" square, the box has 2 large cable forms connecting to it.


Another possibility is a possible paper label on the plastic cover at the top of the engine. On my 2.8JTD it starts 8140.43S. IDTD will differ.

Okay, I'm back. Sorry for the delay.

1.) There appear to be no wires leading to the injectors, just thin steel tubing.
2.) No ECU, anywhere that I could see.

Soooo I'm thinking idTD then.

I bled the fuel filter, checked the electric wire that leads to the fuel pump (engine stop solenoid?), checked the jump wire to where the immobilizer circuit used to be and it's solidly on its spade. The air filter is about 90% okay.

It's now decided to not start up at all. Before the teardown, I tried several times but it won't start. It picks up revs like it wants to start but just won't do it at all now. It would run a bit yesterday...

But, just after trying to fire him up and when feeling around what might be the EGR? if there is EGR's on diesels? along the tubing coming from the block to the air filter housing, I felt that the GIZMO about halfway along this 1" tubing is kinda warm. There's a shot of me holding it in my hand, WHAT IS THIS GIZMO? and could it the culprit?

Your courtesy is appreciated.

1. Engine must be idTD.

2. Gizmo seems to be an Oil Vapour Heater.

3. Device marked EGR is a non return valve, where blow by gases from the sump are routed into the air inlet, after the fuel filter.


EGR valves are fitted to diesels, but they are usually associated with a mass air flow sensor, and require some form of control system.

I think that what Jack was alluding to, was the fact that stop solenoids, which have to be energised for the engine to run, can go faulty and fail to operate correctly, but how do you diagnose?

I do not want to appear critical, but while you have drained the fuel filter, when was it last changed?

Photo of stop solenoid on injection pump please.

See if your have a fuel lift pump between fuel tank and injection pump. Photo of it if it's there please.

If you drained fuel filter and didn't refill by hand priming before trying to start engine you may have to follow the run out of fuel procedure.

You need a fully charged battery to start a diesel.

I am assuming then that the Oil Vapor Heater should feel warm, check.
I just dribbled off some fuel from the bottom of the fuel filter (ca. 4-5 years old) by loosening the plastic thumb nut. Only took out about 50ml to see if there was water in there. It looks clean, check. The Fuel Lift Pump... maybe mine is in the tank. Don't ever remember having seen that guy in all these 19 years. But if you think I have one and can tell me where I'll be happy to get a pic.

Here's the best shot I could do with the limited access between the radiator apparatus and the engine blocks heads. I can see the Shut Off Solenoid, bottom left, that got exposed when the epoxy immobilizer unit was removed. It is here that I ran a hot wire (YELLOW) to the solenoid from the ignition.

The other wire (RED) was original and leads to a point on the fuel pump but I do not know what that does.

"Run Out of Fuel Procedure"? I have run out of fuel. I just turned and turned it over for minutes before it fired up. Is there a better procedure, if so please share, my battery will thank you!

umanemo said:

I am assuming then that the Oil Vapor Heater should feel warm, check.
I just dribbled off some fuel from the bottom of the fuel filter (ca. 4-5 years old) by loosening the plastic thumb nut. Only took out about 50ml to see if there was water in there. It looks clean, check. The Fuel Lift Pump... maybe mine is in the tank. Don't ever remember having seen that guy in all these 19 years. But if you think I have one and can tell me where I'll be happy to get a pic.

Here's the best shot I could do with the limited access between the radiator apparatus and the engine blocks heads. I can see the Shut Off Solenoid, bottom left, that got exposed when the epoxy immobilizer unit was removed. It is here that I ran a hot wire (YELLOW) to the solenoid from the ignition.

The other wire (RED) was original and leads to a point on the fuel pump but I do not know what that does.

"Run Out of Fuel Procedure"? I have run out of fuel. I just turned and turned it over for minutes before it fired up. Is there a better procedure, if so please share, my battery will thank you!

Click to expand...

I'm not familer with your injection pump.

I think the red wire is the stop solenoid.

The yellow wire ? Does that go to a unit the slowly pulls on a cable to a lever on the pump when ignition on?

To test what I think is stop solenoid: apply battery voltage to the red wire terminal and listen for a click or tic , it is very quiet. It should tic. Leave it connected for a few minutes , disconnect and reconnect listening for tic (I suspect tic will be absent proving solenoid failing when been energised for a short while) or maybe 12volt feed to solenoid iffy.

Is you fuel 4-5 years old?

Another issue could be perished hose /hoses anywhere between tank and injection pump allowing air to be drawn in with or instead of fuel

This link with photos may help.

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/427850-diesel-stop-solenoid.html

The following with credits to Rayc.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Ducato-Diesel-Stop-Solenoid-Valve-1-9d-2-4d-2-5d-2-8d-/271932207402?hash=item3f506c312a

At the end of my yellow wire, is the fuel cut-out solenoid that I exposed when I removed the epoxied block that contained the immobilizer receiver that was faulty many, many years ago. Since then I have activated the solenoid with the yellow wire from the ignition switch. I never really listened or took notice to the actuation of the solenoid. Back then I just assumed this wire had to be in place.

Today I engaged the ignition switch while listening to the solenoid. I heard no click. I also removed the spade connector and re-connected it while the ignition was on and I heard no click. And lastly, I have taken a direct feed from the positive battery terminal to the selenoid, and guess what, no click.

I am thinking I should be hearing a click here. Am I correct?

Take a Look at the photos in previous post
The new stop solenoid on eBay looks like your red wire connection. That one should click when battery voltage supplied.

I think your yellow wire connects to a cold start device that pulls on a lever when cold.
If it is then it will not click when supplied power.

Thanks Jack,

Your right, Cold Start for sure, I see the actuator arm now. It's a very small and inaccessible space but I see both now that I have gotten a good vantage point.

I brought 12v to the end of the red wire to hear if that smaller solenoid would actuate but no click there either. If you have experience with this solenoid could you tell me if it is frequently a fail point after these many years and I have just been lucky? Also, more importantly, will it be possible to get it out of there - 24mm open-ended spanner I'm guessing? as there's structure directly above it so a socket is not an option.

I was about to post in similar lines to Jack, but see no need to echo him.

Instead link to another thread containg pictures of cold start device.
https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/471662-white-smoke-1999-2-8-idtd.html

umanemo said:

Thanks Jack,

Your right, Cold Start for sure, I see the actuator arm now. It's a very small and inaccessible space but I see both now that I have gotten a good vantage point.

I brought 12v to the end of the red wire to hear if that smaller solenoid would actuate but no click there either. If you have experience with this solenoid could you tell me if it is frequently a fail point after these many years and I have just been lucky? Also, more importantly, will it be possible to get it out of there - 24mm open-ended spanner I'm guessing? as there's structure directly above it so a socket is not an option.

Click to expand...

I don't know spanner size off top of my head.

It will not be super tight , it only has to be tight enough to seal against injection pump.

Very very important make sure area around stop solenoid spotless before undoing , do not allow any dirt into injection pump.
Brake cleaner could be your friend here.

Thanks. I'll go with replacing the Fuel Cut-off Solenoid as a good starting point. I'm in Spain roadside at the moment so let's see how finding this part goes, getting it on the fuel pump, and then I will report back tomorrow after the replacement is in and the engine starts, right! Fingers crossed!

umanemo said:

Thanks. I'll go with replacing the Fuel Cut-off Solenoid as a good starting point. I'm in Spain roadside at the moment so let's see how finding this part goes, getting it on the fuel pump, and then I will report back tomorrow after the replacement is in and the engine starts, right! Fingers crossed!

Click to expand...

If you have a broken stop solenoid and need to get going , you can remove stop solenoid together with it's spring and plunger. Replace stop solenoid without spring and plunger , engine will then run but you would have to stall engine to stop it.

Oh and check that fuel tank breather hasn't blocked causing vacuum under fuel cap.

jackwhoo said:

If you have a broken stop solenoid and need to get going , you can remove stop solenoid together with it's spring and plunger. Replace stop solenoid without spring and plunger , engine will then run but you would have to stall engine to stop it.

Click to expand...

Perhaps due to limited access, rather fiddly to carry out, but that seems like a possible confirmatory test.