Hi new member here. Hello to all.

I have a 2001 Ducato with a 2.8JTD. When it runs it runs well and pulls strong. The injector light does light up from time to time: so what does that mean?

However, the real problem is that I now have a no start condition after parking it and not using it for about 2 weeks. Battery was strong.

First time this happaned was 2 days ago, after close to 5 minutes of cranking on and off it finally came to life, seemingly a bit flooded (puff's of unburnt diesel which then cleared up). 3/4 throttle seemed to help sputter it to life, although as it's drive by wire might have been all in my head.

Let it run once it ran, turned it off once warmish and tried to restart, was just a little less stubborn to start.

So, in went out just now and tried cranking, and cycling the ignition for fuel pressure. Won't start, not a hiccup.

I need to move using this van on Monday, hoping I can get the info I need to fix it. I'm a classic car mechanic, don't know these modern diesels finer workings though.

Where to look first? I can hear the pump priming, once it did start the other day it ran fine.

Is there an OBD port I can hook up a scan tool too?

cheers

I can't answer the injector light issue, but the starting problem sounds familiar. There was a range of VIN numbers that exhibited this problem, but the dealers I went to for fixing mine were no help. My travelling mechanic eventually tracked things down despite FIAT not being helpful.

The engine management relies on signals from a crank sensor and a camshaft sensor in order to get the fuel supply timimg right.

My mechanic initially ran a diagnostic which indicated a sensor issue, so he changed the crank sensor underneath with no positive result. He then found that the camshaft sensor on that range of VINs was wrongly positioned. It has to be a specific distance from the cambelt pulley (0.8-1.5mm) and it was set too low. The bracket needed raising a specific amount, FIAT even do a special part number, but it is basically just a couple of thin washers to raise the mounting bracket a little.

Since the mod was done, my engine starts first turn of the key every time.

It's dead easy to do, and I'd recommend you try it. Nothing to lose.

In addition to Tugboats comments, this could also be a glowplug issue. Does the light come on? can you check them?


Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

In addition to Tugboats comments, this could also be a glowplug issue. Does the light come on? can you check them?


Robert G8RPI.

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I though the JTD's used some sort of quick fire system?

The temp outstide is between 1 and -1 celcius. Glow plugs go of immediately, can hear the relay click and the plugs click off directly.

How long should they glow on a 2001?

Bad relay or would a bad glowplug cause the short cycle? if so that's the culprit!

Your battery is discharging enough over the 2 weeks to make starting difficult. I disconnect the earth on mine when not using it for over a week and it never fails to start when reconnected.

The 2.8JTD does not have glow plugs, it doesn't have a flame starter either, it does though have a hot injector on the inlet manifold which injects heated fuel into the manifold when temps are below -10c

Above that temp the engine relies on, good compression, high cranking speed and good fuel atomization to start, nothing more.

Scuby said:

Is there an OBD port I can hook up a scan tool too?

Click to expand...

If it's a very early JTD with the Mk2 body then it won't have an OBD port.

Torq said:

Your battery is discharging enough over the 2 weeks to make starting difficult. I disconnect the earth on mine when not using it for over a week and it never fails to start when reconnected.

The 2.8JTD does not have glow plugs, it doesn't have a flame starter either, it does though have a hot injector on the inlet manifold which injects heated fuel into the manifold when temps are below -10c

Above that temp the engine relies on, good compression, high cranking speed and good fuel atomization to start, nothing more.

Click to expand...

as far as battery discharge goes, I was able to crank for a good 15 - 20 minutes off and on to get it running a few days ago. Battery is in good order. Once it ran for about 10 minutes it was hard starting afterwards as wel. Not a deep charge but enough to get the battery back up to where it was.

So this time around, yes it did die on me earlier, but this is not the battery. I'm a mechanic by trade, just not commonrail diesels. mostly lpg and petrol.

Now, I've found the injector on the inlet. I am a bit confused as the information is conflicting. It's a 2001 reg van but has the bleu dials and such so I think it's a very late Mk2 Ducato then? So no OBD port?

Do I or do I not have glow plugs. It has a light on the dash for them, it also has a relay that get's operated with ignition on that switches that light/circuit for about a second. It's 20 amp located under the glovebox fuse tray.

When it's warmer out or up to two weeks ago it would start after 8 to 10 revolutions, maybe a few more. So to me, it wasn't as healthy a starter as it should be.

Any ideas? I'll have another go at it tomorrow and it would be nice to be armed with a check list.

I'll bet it will fire up on starting fluid and run fine. I'd like to fix it properly.
cheers

Scuby said:

Do I or do I not have glow plugs. It has a light on the dash for them, it also has a relay that get's operated with ignition on that switches that light/circuit for about a second. It's 20 amp located under the glovebox fuse tray.

Click to expand...

If you search for 'thermostarter' on the forum there is quite a bit of information however, in the six years I had a van with this device it always started, summer or winter, before this had a chance to fire up!

I suspect the causes of your starting issues lie elsewhere.

Crossingkeeper said:

If you search for 'thermostarter' on the forum there is quite a bit of information however, in the six years I had a van with this device it always started, summer or winter, before this had a chance to fire up!

I suspect the causes of your starting issues lie elsewhere.

Click to expand...

Mine isn't even wired in. The previous owner had installed a push button under the dash to turn it on at will, obviously he had some issues. I disconnected it and didn't wire it back up again and have never had starting issues bar a weak battery.

Scuby said:

Now, I've found the injector on the inlet. I am a bit confused as the information is conflicting. It's a 2001 reg van but has the bleu dials and such so I think it's a very late Mk2 Ducato then? So no OBD port?

Do I or do I not have glow plugs. It has a light on the dash for them, it also has a relay that get's operated with ignition on that switches that light/circuit for about a second. It's 20 amp located under the glovebox fuse tray.

Any ideas? I'll have another go at it tomorrow and it would be nice to be armed with a check list.

I'll bet it will fire up on starting fluid and run fine. I'd like to fix it properly.
cheers

Click to expand...

Mine is the mk2 body and has the blue dials, definitely no glow plugs, the relay is probably for the cold start valve on the inlet manifold. Also definitely no obd connector. I rebuilt the engine 9 years ago so I know the mechanics of it (well what I can remember) and had the full dash out to clean it.


Speaking of batteries, I've seen seemingly good batteries start a car, immediately pull full power from the alternator and burn out the rectifier. It may appear to be good but in reality they can be knackered.


You could have a bad injector, low fuel pressure, low compression faulty rail sensor, slow starter motor.
Does it start any quicker when up to temperature?
Is it a fast turnover or a bit slow? Mine is fast.
Mileage?

Sad thing is that my van is going to be scrapped in a few weeks time, it has only 75k on the clock but the sills have rusted out in the last year and it's not economical to repair.


If you want to learn about the common rail system you could do a lot worse than get a copy of these
https://www.bookdepository.com/Diesel-Fuel-Injection-System-Common-Rail-Robert-Bosch/9780837613505

https://www.scribd.com/document/352434118/bosch-diesel-engine-management-pdf

I have a 2001 Ducato and it does have an OBD port. It is not the 16 pin version you find inside the cab of all cars and vans these days, it is a three pin connector, and it is found clipped to the ECU cover, near to the air filter. I needed to purchase an adapter cable to 16 bit OBD, which cost £5 on ebay. I then bought a USB to OBD cable for vehicles before 2004, called KKL line, for about £10. This came bundled with a program called FiatECUscan. I did this only last month. It read the codes a treat, allowed me to read and graph all of the sensor data.

As your red engine light is coming on (it looks like an injector), there will be error code(s) recorded in the ECU memory, which will give you a clue to what may be wrong.

I had to do all of this because my local garage didn't have a clue, telling me 'these old vans don't have OBD'.

I also have an 01 2.8, it has the 3 pin OBD connector, I had the injector light coming on and it was the throttle position sensor that had a bad connection. Are you by any chance getting air in the diesel circuit? Maybe renew the filter and make sure you bleed the system.

Mmh, I must be getting old! Seems that I did know there was an OBC port on the 01 Ducato, but I got nowhere with using it as I couldn't find any suitable s/w.

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/104856-diagnostic-port-2001-2-8jtd.html

Torq said:

Mmh, I must be getting old! Seems that I did know there was an OBC port on the 01 Ducato, but I got nowhere with using it as I couldn't find any suitable s/w.

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/104856-diagnostic-port-2001-2-8jtd.html

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Its the same bosch edc15c7 ecu as the 2002-2006 model multiecuscan work perfectly with the 3 pin to obd adapter.

You say the Injector light came on a few times, so can you elaborate (gosh big words for Chrissy Eve) when it was coming on. Such as when you were footing it for more power which would indicate Fuel Pressure insufficient.

corcai said:

Its the same bosch edc15c7 ecu as the 2002-2006 model multiecuscan work perfectly with the 3 pin to obd adapter.

Click to expand...

It was 11 years ago, that van is long gone now.

Hi mate did you ever get to the bottom of your issue? Mines driving me crazy!

Hi,

This is an old thread, and Scuby has not posted on this forum since 2017.

If your 2.8 JTD is difficult to start, although cranking is good, and subsequently runs OK, the camshaft position sensor is a possible suspect.

The ECU uses the camshaft position sensor only, to determine which stroke that the engine is on at startup. All subsequent timing information is derived from the crankshaft position sensor.

Please post your eventual cure to help others.

Yea I noticed he hadn’t posted for a while I was hoping it would send him a notification! This thread is identical to problems in having!
So I’ve got a recovery truck and back in February when we had the storms I was out one night and the rain and spray was terrible and noticed the red injector light flickering and I’ve had nothing but problems since! The light is not on now and it takes ages to start. Battery is good as it will go flat after 30 mins of cranking and sumtimes will start! The ecu is showing glow plugs code and cam sensor code! I’ve changed cam sensor and fuel pump. Also bought 4 reconditioned injectors and it’s still having issues! Anyone help please!

There was a problem with some early 2.8jtd Ducato engines have injector leads which were slightly too short, resulting in failing connections at the injectors. I have a vague memory of DIY extension kits being available.