I've done a search and could not find the answer. I'm looking to do an oil change on:

Model: Ducato
Year: 2013
Engine: Iveco MultiJet 2.3 130

Vehicle bought brand new and I kept the original used Iveco oil filter (part # 504091563). In photos show the Iveco one has 6 'larger' holes with a much wider gasket seal than the Fiat dealer supplied oil filter (part # 8094872). I asked the Fiat dealer why there's such a difference, and their reply was they insist that part # 8094872 "supersedes" the Iveco part # 504091563. How can this be so as in photo, oil filter box has production date 31-07-2013 (same year as our Ducato).

What makes me dubious is that the oil filter (black) that I bought also is used in the earlier Iveco JTD diesel motors which are EURO4 spec and before. The EURO5 spec brings in the diesel particulate filter which is a different oil formulation (low SAP) than previous EURO specs. So how is such a filter that the dealer claims it supersedes is 'safe?' / preferred?

Last photo is Total Quartz oil ACEA C2 as an alternative to buying the expensive Selenia Pure Energy WR 5W30 ACEA C2 oil. Can anyone comment if Total (this particular oil) uses "recycled oils" ? I've become aware oil suppliers are using more and more of recycled oils despite the fact that recycling processes insisted most metal particles are removed to a fine micron level. ?? Eitherway, are such oils inferior to made from scratch new oil?



Side shot of filter - Fiat brand is black - Iveco is white.


Total Oil ACEA C2.

To add more confusion, i've check with the local Iveco commercial truck parts dept. Their computer had no listing of my Iveco oil filter (at least not part # 504091563). I asked what does their Iveco "Daily" vans use for oil filter (which is essentially same model motor used in the Fiat Ducatos) and they came back with part # 2995811 which looks remarkably similar to the original Iveco oil filter that came with the Ducato.

I have seen problems over the years with filters with insufficient seal protrusion making for a bad oil seal. Just on that alone, I would choose the Fiat (black) filter as shown.

I would choose the FIAT filter, especially if the replacement resembles the filter fitted by the factory when the vehicle was brand new. You have a really good chance that the factory fit was the correct one.

I have seen problems over the years with filters with insufficient seal protrusion making for a bad oil seal. Just on that alone, I would choose the Fiat (black) filter as shown.

Click to expand...

In that case, the original Iveco filter (that came factory new) would have the better seal as the rubber gasket is at least twice as wide as the Fiat (black) one.

No mention on the criteria why both filters looks so different or an explanation why this black filter is also used in the OLDER Iveco motors that are EURO4 spec or less (pre-2011). I mean changing the size & and number of the holes is rather radical move.

I would choose the FIAT filter, especially if the replacement resembles the filter fitted by the factory when the vehicle was brand new. You have a really good chance that the factory fit was the correct one.

Click to expand...

This is not the case. The Fiat supplied new filter looks nothing like the original factory Iveco filter. If you have not read, these diesel motors in the Ducato line are Iveco motors. The same motors used in Iveco's "Daily" vans which in their heavy truck division, uses an oil filter (Iveco branded) that looks like my original oil filter.

Oil flow rates are very crucial. Especially in turbo engines, more so important, diesel engines with DPF. When you change the size of the holes and the # of holes, AND no online information / explanation can be found, then this concerns me.

When Iveco tests these Multijet engines during the R&D stage, they run them at high mileage using "what oil filter"? To come out with a different filter that is unproven? is something to consider. Anotherwords, why is Fiat advising a different oil filter than what Iveco uses in their fleet of vans? Is Iveco's tests show that in their commercial use of their Daily vans, their own Iveco oil filter is more suitable for heavy duty use than the Fiat version that goes in their consumer-wise Ducato vans?

Yes, I was trying to suggest that any replacement should resemble the filter originally fitted by the factory. Clearly not the FIAT. But I am sure the op knows that.

So it seems my suspicion is right. The black oil filter supplied by the local Fiat dealer is different than the Iveco ones. I should mention that I have done 1 previous oil change using this dealer supplied Fiat filter. Maybe it's my perception but driving the Ducato brand new (on the 1st 5000kms before the next oil change), the color of the oil remained clear initially a lot longer than using this black Fiat filter. This what brought my suspicion and i'll have to re-confirm using the other Iveco oil filter (that looks the same as the original).

I will bring what i've found to the local Iveco dealer for some guidance. There is word that a much longer filter has been used in these EURO5 Multi-Jet motors. This is all too confusing compared to owning an American brand vehicle that isn't so picky on oil grades and filters.

OK i'm back with a photo. Both are Iveco filters but with different part #. Left part #2995811 which is what Iveco uses in their Daily model vans (having same Iveco Multijet II EURO5 2.3L motor in the Fiat Ducato). Right is original used Iveco oil filter that i'm trying to source.

Iveco parts guy says it's clear the black Fiat one is made by a different OEM. Though having smaller holes, there are more of them which shouldn't make any difference as long as thread size fits and the gasket fits.

The only difference I can see with the 2 is the original one has slightly wider rubber gasket. The inside rubber (shown orange in new) is the same. While the Fiat (black) one the inside rubber filter seal can not be seen due to the smaller hole size.

and eBay Italy shows all 3 part # filters as being the same which means either way, I should be safe to use any of the oil filters.

http://www.ebay.it/itm/Oil-Filter-P...995811-504091563-8094872-FH1050-/331526183287

SBQ said:

In that case, the original Iveco filter (that came factory new) would have the better seal as the rubber gasket is at least twice as wide as the Fiat (black) one.

No mention on the criteria why both filters looks so different or an explanation why this black filter is also used in the OLDER Iveco motors that are EURO4 spec or less (pre-2011). I mean changing the size & and number of the holes is rather radical move.

Click to expand...

That was not what I said. I was talking about the depth of seal protruding above the metal surround. When insufficient protrusion applies, the filter can bottom on the metal before enough pressure is applied to the seal - saw that with some non-genuine Japanese filters. Oil leaks ensued. The width of the seal is irrelevant - an O ring provides enough width with sufficient pressure.

Just seen this thread:


My 2015 Fiat Ducato 2.3 EURO 5+ motorhome also has as its original fitment an IVECO 504091563 oil filter.


Which one did you end up fitting?

why not fit this one?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IVECO-DAI...11-504091563-8094872-FH1050-New-/231733082814

MikeJJ:

I went with the oil filter that Iveco uses in their Daily van part #2995811 as it resembled closest to the original filter like yours. I've driven all over NZ on it and find I feel a lot more comfortable than using the previous black filter from Fiat. I know it may be sub-conscious in my mind but the engine responds better, cold starts better, and the oil stays cleaner longer.

rayc:

I use Fram filters all the time. In my other vehicles I use their Ultra Guard filters for long duration extended changes typically with synthetic oils. However, NOT A CHANCE I would consider using it in an EURO5 spec motor because of the diesel particulate filter and the required very specific grade of oil - ACEA C2 A local European mechanic told me that you may be fine using different brands of oils but don't go trying different oil filters as flow rates will vary and this could affect the DPF performance. I DO believe Iveco know their motors better than Fiat does.
https://www.fiatforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2995811

You do realize that the manufacturers use the CHEAPEST one they can find at the time all it has to do is pass their minimum specs as per iveco knowing more than fiat they are at a manufacturing level the same company so its six of one hald a dozen of the other on that point .I do disagree with your mechanic its the oil thats more important than the filter as for oil cleanliness and efficiency id strongly recommend oil sampling its about $35 aus from caterpillar Cheers Adam

You do realize that the manufacturers use the CHEAPEST one they can find at the time all it has to do is pass their minimum specs

Click to expand...

In my experience, this is far from the case. Many original name branded filters do set a reasonable standard and do better than many of the 'cheaper' aftermarket brands. I've read online oil filter tests where numerous oil filters of different brands (including original factory ones) show that paying more for a better filter is not the case but rather. :

http://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/conclusions.html
http://parts.olathetoyota.com/tundra-oil-filter-comparison
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ilter-testing-results-thread-4g63t-4b11t.html

Nevertheless, these tests are based on conventional vehicles and not diesel motors with DPF which require a specific grade of oil.

iveco knowing more than fiat they are at a manufacturing level the same company

Click to expand...

You will find many different makes having different motors. Fiats having GM motors. Fords having Mazdas motors. Daewoos in GM cars. Shareholdings of any company are often changed hands, go into private or public and have very little influence on how 1 companys says to other company to use this part. Jaguar will remain Jaguar despite Tata Motors ownership.

I do disagree with your mechanic its the oil thats more important than the filter as for oil cleanliness and efficiency

Click to expand...

Again, i'm speaking for EURO5 spec diesel motors requiring the ACEA C2 specification. There is little difference among various brands of C2 grade oil. This is not the case with conventional cars running synthetic oils as most oils will run fine in conventional cars. But using different grades of oils in a motor having DPF is damaging. Conventional oils for petro cars ie API standard are backwards compatible. In ACEA, a C3 grade oil is different to a C2 grade oil and are not interchangeable. Therefore, this leaves to only looking at the oil filter.

MikeJJ said:

Just seen this thread:


My 2015 Fiat Ducato 2.3 EURO 5+ motorhome also has as its original fitment an IVECO 504091563 oil filter.


Which one did you end up fitting?

Click to expand...

Did you settle on using the same 504091563 oil filter? Done an oil change 2 months ago (which used the Iveco oil filter) have noticed still plenty of life in the oil (after 15,000kms) - not as thick as the prior oil change when using the black Fiat filter. Maybe the change in oil brand was a factor? (Total C2 ACEA) - prior was Fiat Selenia WR C2.

Can anyone share what brand / type of oil they are using in their Fiat Ducato motors?

sbq said:

did you settle on using the same 504091563 oil filter? Done an oil change 2 months ago (which used the iveco oil filter) have noticed still plenty of life in the oil (after 15,000kms) - not as thick as the prior oil change when using the black fiat filter. Maybe the change in oil brand was a factor? (total c2 acea) - prior was fiat selenia wr c2.

Can anyone share what brand / type of oil they are using in their fiat ducato motors?

Click to expand...

noticed the same thing today changing the oil for the first time on my 2016 2.3,hope it makes no difference. I've used the total oil also.

Back with an update. Local Iveco dealer has supplied me an OEM filter by CNH part # 2995811 (same part # for the Iveco oil filter for their Daily). As close as I can examine, it appears identical to the Iveco filter used before. Even the stamping code # and machine marks are identical.

https://5.allegroimg.com/s400/019cbf/cb7f472744418d4bbdf39b5e9295

http://www.purflux.com/en/catalogue/online-catalogue.html

Purflux is original Fiat these days.

Often UFI is original too:

http://catalogue.ufi.it/menu/menu.php?lingua=en