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Old 10-06-2014   #1
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Exclamation My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

Im going to start by banging my head on the wall if you don't mind.....

:b ang:

Fiat Doblo 2003 1.9 JTD sx with 115k.

its took me long enough to remember my password for this and my gosh the people behind this site are not very helpful regarding accounts at all.

This is my problem.

When i start my van from cold/hot/warm/wet/dry (any condition really) its got a tendency to just cut out. sometime s it can take 10minutes sometimes it can take 3 hours (from standing still no movement or accelerator movement) now before anybody comments about this please read what i have already done/achieved so far.

Van has been in 4 garages, the last one was a very reputable diesel specialist who only found that maybe my inertia switch was faulty (even though i have already told them I've changed it twice (once for second hand then for new) so they are stumped. i refuse to put it in another garage as i have already checked and done what they would.

I can be driving down the road and under load its bloody perfect, although the DMF is totally screwed as its judders when hard on it. it pulls good, but when just cruising and tickling the accelerator (especially in 3rd and 4th) the glow plug light comes on (while stalling/dieing/loosing power) as well as the water in fuel light sometimes (and as long as i just wait) maybe 1-7seconds it will just bump itself back off and away i go again no problems. until it happens again. it used to do it every other drive or so but its every drive now. sometimes it dies smooth sometimes its a bugger of jerk, i don't tend to lean forward so much now as i actually hit my head on the steering wheel a couple of times the jerk is so bad.

if van is stationary (out of gear) it will just cut out and go straight to the point where you first turn on the key (fuel pump lifting etc) and starts fine

sometimes you can hear rattling and a very rough idle as to the point i know exactly when its going to cut out now.

I have had numerous codes in it from fuel pressure sensor/ regulator to EGR to Fuel pressure regulators sensors etc etc etc

The main one i get which really confuses me (and everyone else on this planet) is P1604 which is main supply relay - any body any ideas? i have changed all the relays (is this the glow plug relay???)

i have replaced so far....(not in order of replacement.)

Fuel Filter
Fuel Feed and return Pipes#
Fuel filter housing
Checked tanked - All perfect
Check lifter pump - perfect
Fuel pressure Regulator (on back of fuel pump)
fuel pressure sensor (common rail mounted)
inlet air pressure
checked and cleaned every ground point in the van (including battery terminals)
new battery
New EGR valve
Air filter
Crankshaft sensor
Injectors - Leak off and pressure test - all ok
All Relays and Fuses.
Checked ECU connections.
renewed Heater blower loom - was melted
made sure every bulb in van is working
new instrument cluster (old was cracked anyway) - not part of problem
Crank shaft vibration damper pulley

The list does go on and on but i am absolutely 100% lost with it.

Its really strange how it just lets me continue on my journey and starts straight away?

i have tried to have live data readings on it while it does it to see if anything can be seen but as soon as its cuts out the bloody thing disconnects and i loose my graph. im just left with a note file that is very hard to understand.

so basically van cuts out and gives illumination all the time for GLOW PLUG LIGHT and sometimes followed or with the water in fuel light. it does not flash, it just comes on until van has started itself or i start turn the key

i have had the engine management light come on a few times. but only gives me the P1604 error which i have not had in a while.

i am currently waiting for a new MAF but i'm a little hesitant about that as it stills cuts out without it on or connected!!!

The van is remapped and maybe this could have fried the ECU? i just done know.

maybe its the wrong color or height. i could just be wearing the wrong shoes.

if anyone can help shed any light on this it would be great.

This fault has been present for about 2 years.

Its totally random and out of place.

If im on the motorway (like my drive from leeds to Southampton) it was perfect all the way down but coming back it did it around 19 times.

PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME SAVE THIS BEAST

and just in case anybody was wondering i have tried to eliminate faults easily by interchanging parts i have on other JTDs although most sensors have been new.

still got the same problem.

could a faulty/shredded wire glow plug cause it to cut out?

And to finish this off i get absolutely no error codes in the ENGINE control unit. ouch

i should just become super British and ''Get rid'' but i just cant. a bigger engine yes. destroy....NO
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Old 10-06-2014   #2
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

Well, mines been remapped and since then, it has been getting harder to start.

No faults, no obvious wire faults...however, I am thinking the injectors may be either worn or slightly coked.

It idles like a butter churn at max revs, you sit there and shake like you have the DT's.

I have replaced everything, but there are no other faults occurring.

This is why I am thinking along the lines of a problematic injector as it stinks like an old diesel style engine.

Anyway, I wonder of your problem is a faulty ignition switch?

They are known to build up carbon on the contacts and it could be heating up and breaking the contact, sending the immobiliser a stray signal.

To be honest, you need this on an oscilloscope to find an intermittent spike.

I advised someone on here to have their throttle pedal checked out, perhaps you would be wise to also have that checked too.
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Old 10-06-2014   #3
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

Feel your pain without being able to offer any advance I'm afraid, only similar symptoms.
Going to watch with interest because my 05 JTD throws in the electrical gremlin when running from time to time. With mine the glow light will flash a few times the returns to normal. When this happens I can put money on it that the engine will cut out the next time the car comes to a stand still. Another warning sign is the radio will cut out and all the instructment panel lights will come on. This will happen when the car is relatively cold and perhaps a couple of times. Then after that it will run fine for my daily 30 miles A road run. Sometimes it will run for about a week then the gremlins will throw in. Until very recently it will restart on the key first attempt, but this week, a couple of times it's been the second turn which is worrying.
Just over a year ago, I had issues with not being able to get the motor to start after I had jacked it up to change to front suspension arms. Mine was lift pump problems and the main pressure pump ran fine once I got it primed. Simple fix for me in the end, basically, a swapped the 'same' relays and reseated to other relays that can be found in the fuse box below the steering wheel. Not sure if that will help with your P1604 relay if it's in the same fuse box.
I know for sure my glow plugs should be OK because I only changed them for new ones last year. There is a low voltage test that can be done on the glow plug relay. This is the black box that is bolted to the bulkhead roughly positioned above the EGR valve. I got the 'how to' from a youtube clip. I've also bolted on another new earth strap which didn't make any difference.
I've got another Doblo 1.9JTD that a bought as a non runner because of gear linkage problems - I'm going to do what you have tried and swap individual components to see if I get a result. I'll post up if I find anything.
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Old 11-06-2014   #4
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Exclamation Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

Well i thought to myself. can it be the MAF? since i have now changed the accelerator pedal for a new one i have now eliminated another area.

My new MAF does not come until 2moro so i thought sod it, il go put some derv in and give it a quick blast without it even connected, i know it idles fine without it been connected but will it drive.....the answer is yes but no for very long.

I put some fuel in then took a short 2 mile drive and back. i gave the van full acceleration as soon as i left the fill up station and i got the jerk i have been getting and the van just died.completely THEN, it just would not start, i didn't try for too long and just opened the bonnet and plugged the MAF back in and hey presto FIRST TIME started.

did exactly the same drive same loads acceleration etc and it was fine, no faults etc and didnt cut out, so i am thinking its either the MAF or the ECU, there is no other explanation. i have now forced what is happening and i wait in ore of my new MAF. i am abit reluctant to have the ecu checked just yet or fit another due to the remap LOSS, ive got another FULL ecu BSI kit which i am going to try after i put a new MAF on. if the fault cut out is still there.

I'm pretty sure its the MAF as thinking about it i have K&N cone filter on (which im replacing back to standard then get the K&N round panel filter to go into the existing housing.) and i have cleaned it every six months with the K&N recharge kit but i think the filter has had better days. I don't agree with induction kits and only put the cone filter on back in 2004 as K&N did not make the filter we wanted.

I once connected a crude chip directly in line with MAF and maybe i either damaged the MAF or the ECU, its kangarroooood like a good one when i installed it, it didn't like it.

Maybe its the oil from the K&N recharge process? they disagree but they would wouldn't they......

I will not loose and i will keep the Fiat Fanatics informed. i bloody love this van and i would like to buried at sea in it. I'm serious.

The only contradiction to this is that no matter who you ask or which mechanic you speak to they will guarantee you that a faulty MAF can not stall or stop a running vehicle. after a wide internet search everything says different. any body else wish to comment?

The only other thing i can't seem to suss out it that when on FIATECUSCAN when i click read parameters for CANBUS DATA LINE its states ''NOT OK''
i have known for maybe 6 years it has been like this so maybe its not that but why would it say 'Not ok'

i love a challenge

Over and out.

P.S Thanks for everyone who is involved and willing to spend there time sharing information with me and with everybody else.
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Old 11-06-2014   #5
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

my thoughts are with you...good luck
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Old 11-06-2014   #6
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

I have never known a faulty MAF to cause a stall!

They almost always fail safe to a default limp home mode, sometimes over fueling, sometimes under fueling.

The MAF is a simple device. It tells the ECU how much air is coming into the engine at a given time.

As you open the throttle, more air is sucked in to the engine. The faster the flows, the cooler it gets.

The ECU interprets a signal from a sensor and a heated plate, loop or bar inside the MAF. The sensor needs a steady temperature, so the ECU will feed a varying voltage to the heated part. The reason the voltage varies is so the constant temperature (i.e. 80 degree's C) can be kept during air intake.

So, at idle, the heated sensor will be fed around 0.5v to keep it constant.

As the throttle opens wider, more air flow cools it down so more voltage is applied to steady the temperature at 80 C, so the voltage may go up to 4v and so on.

It is the amount of voltage the ECU needs to apply to the MAF that determines the volume of air that has passed through it.

If the heated sensor fails, the MAF no longer tells the ECU how much air flow is being ingested, so the ECU reverts to a base program which although will let the engine run, it will do so poorly either at idle or part throttle settings.

The ECU in most cases will run the whole system at a limp home setting, but in this case, having been remapped, the base program is lost and it can't decide where it needs to limp, so it tries to run, but has a broken ankle and stumbles time and again.....I should imagine
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Old 12-06-2014   #7
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

Ok, so I did a fault code scan and found no faults stored or in progress!!

I disconnected the maf, no obvious difficulty and it flagged up a fault (air flow) which I deleted.

I then disconnected the solenoid that operates the turbo waste gate, different idle noise, flagged up two fault codes, which again I deleted.

Then I undid one injector at a time, obvious difference as the engine really started to vibrate, so I replugged each one until I got to No1 injector and there was no difference!

At last I had found the idle problem, No1 wasn't injecting at start up & idle, but came on above 1000rpm.

I know this because I revved the engine with No1 disconnected and it was awful, slow on the uptake and vibrating as it revved.

I switched off, reconnected the injector and deleted the fault codes I had caused and removed No1 to see if there was obvious damage, there wasn't.

I replaced it and stuck some expensive injector cleaner into the tank. Supposed to be 1 part to 50 litres of fuel. I added two parts to 15 litres as the tank was almost empty.

I then charged around, revving up to 4500rpm in each gear as I went up and down the dual carriageway.

I filled the tank and added another shot of cleaner and to my surprise, the idle is getting better!

It used to shudder as it was idling on 3 cylinders, but now, it shudders only now and then and only for a second or two.

I also had my AC topped up after fitting a new condenser, so the added bonus is cold air in my 14 windows black hi roof

I managed to find a Multipla with a 1.9 jtd in the local breaker so I am off down to buy the 4 injectors as back up.....
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Old 12-06-2014   #8
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

New, injectors = 294 pounds each

New MAF = 250 pounds



From my local scrapyard that takes cars in to crush as opposed to breaking for profit I got four injectors and one MAF for the grand sum total of....


















FORTY POUNDS
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Old 18-06-2014   #9
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

Well.........

I am totally confused. My Doblo has just decided to stop stalling and now this is the 4th day of solid driving and it has not played up once. i think this is the final result.

Strange thing is, this is all i did.

I put the FIATECUSCAN on again and did the actuation tests on everything i could and found the GLOW PLUG HEATER RELAY was a bit defective so just replaced for new and it worked perfectly on the next actuation.(this is the black relay closest to the front of the van in the engine bay fuse box) i then found the Vacuum Valve on the inlet manifold was a bit sticky (and found this is the noise that has been missing when i turn engine off - a brief sucking pop sound) so i soaked in WD-40 and kept opening and closing (this valve actually stalls engine if you close it while running) and then with engine running, i sprayed washing up liquid and water all over the engine until the point the engine was so hot it just steamed off instantly. i did this for a bout 40minutes.

After this i turned van off and left if for one day.

i then picked it up on Sunday morning. and its been absolutely perfect ever since. i have my original MPG back of just under 54.

after 2 years of this problem......i don't even know exactly what cured it.

What i have just described is all i have done. nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe is was the valve that was sticking? what does that do? obviously it is controlled by vacuum but my god am i confused. maybe a wiring connector was contaminated and the washing up liquid cleared it?

At least it has stopped stalling but i am really not sure why.

The MPG is perfect, responsiveness is PERFECT, pulls like a train.
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Old 18-10-2016   #10
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

It was infact the flap inside the intake alluminum tube that was sticking.
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Old 17-08-2017   #11
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Re: My fighting stalling/cutting out doblo

I know it's a while since your post but I've had similar problems, over last 18 months 2 years or so. I had the crank sensor replaced 2 years ago and the problem almost disappeared, but now and againd engine would just conk out, now it's doing it all the time. I noticed you solved your issue with unsticking the flap inside the intake valve did this solve the problem long term? ie. is it running still now! thanks for any input.

Andy
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