Hi Folks,
Desperately need help as I am 2,000 miles from home with a starting problem.
I have had my 2006 Doblo 1.3 Family M Jet into the local Fiat dealers here with 5 guys looking at it and can't find the problem.
It sometimes starts first time if I'm lucky, if not sometimes 10--15 times again if lucky.
The strange thing is if I bump start it just 3 mtrs it starts instantly.
Whenever it starts it runs like a dream.

The dealers checked the injectors, changed fuel filters, there is a signal from the crankcase sensor. They also checked the fuel pump and only slight problem was it varied pressure at starting from 60 to 80 to 160. According to them it should run at 250 pressure? The car has never missed a beat so far.

I have to head back to the UK shortly and looks like any stops will have to be on a hill otherwise it's in the lap of the gods.

I really would be grateful for any help.

Forgot to mention it's a new starter motor as well. The engine flies over on the battery so no problem there. Also doesn't matter if its hot or cold same problem and starts with jus a slight bump even from cold.

If the 1.3 as a fuel priming system, it might be something worth checking. The priming fuel pump in the tank would push fuel to the main pressure pump, hense the reason why it runs sweet as once the main pressure pump is pulling the fuel up. On initial start up, the primed fuel would feed the main fuel pressure pump.

As a 'get you home':

Have you tried giving it a sniff of 'easy start' - once it has fired on that it may then carry on using what the injectors are giving ?

Thanks Retro Pedro and Niall_ G,
I thought the pump might be the answer from heaven. I checked with the dealer who said the pump was working and I can hear it on start up. What I don't know, is it up to pressure ?

He thinks it's the fuel pump, I just can't understand how it runs so sweetly with the slightest bump start but not with the starter motor. How can the fault be the fuel pump both times?

We priced a pump from Germany £1100 and 2 weeks delivery. So it's a no to this and I'll sell the dam thing warts and all when and if I get back. Meanwhile he is trying to get a 2nd hand one---mission impossible.

The only other thing I have noticed is; It does sometimes start if I let the starter wind on for a while. Then even from cold the temperature gauge shoots to maximum, bleeps then start up and the needle drops back to normal?
Gonna try the easy start just got to find the air cleaner???

Big thanks for your efforts.

jetjem said:

Then even from cold the temperature gauge shoots to maximum, bleeps then start up and the needle drops back to normal?
Gonna try the easy start just got to find the air cleaner???

Click to expand...

Hi mate,

Im assuming they have checked the plausibility of the reading from the CTS?

Alan

Niall_G said:

As a 'get you home':

Have you tried giving it a sniff of 'easy start' - once it has fired on that it may then carry on using what the injectors are giving ?

Click to expand...

Great, thanks for that. I tried Hoults Start and it WORKS!! So that gives me another option for starting. Makes a hell of an initial rattle so I will use it as least as possible. Thanks again.

a1ant said:

Hi mate,

Im assuming they have checked the plausibility of the reading from the CTS?

Alan

Click to expand...

Hi Alan, The CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor?) acts normall other than when I wind the starter on for a while then the oddball reading. Can you tell me if this CTS can affect the stating in anyway?
I will ask the dealer guy.

It starts first time with a slight bump.
It starts no problem with Easy Start.

On first turn of ignition it can almost just about fire up (one little click from engine) and if it does this but doesn't start then it's unlikely to start on ignition. It's as if resets something???

As your guy definately checked the fuel lift tank relay?
Seems to me your main pressure pump is fine. Does the car run fine once fired up, i.e. no spasmatic loss of power or cutting out. If it runs sweet as for my money its got to be something to do with the system that primes the fuel system, hence me mentioning the relay. The other possibility could be air in the system at priming stage, but if it runs OK once fired up wouldn't have thought this would be the case.
Going back to the relay, have a look at the fuse box under the steering wheel. I'm not sure if the 1.3 multijet is the same as the 1.9JTD, but if it is, trying pulling the relays out and reseating them. I'm not sure which relay is fuel lift pump related, but if there are 2 relays the same type, swap them over and see if this improves things.
Best of luck with it.

jetjem said:

Great, thanks for that. I tried Hoults Start and it WORKS!! So that gives me another option for starting. Makes a hell of an initial rattle so I will use it as least as possible. Thanks again.

Click to expand...

I recently had a similar problem on my Iveco Daily - lots of cranking (20 seconds) before it would fire up, much quicker to use 'Easy Start' then it ran fine. It turned out be a faulty injector allowing too much fuel back to the tank, dropping the pressure in the fuel rail and hence starving the other injectors - the increased cranking speed when running on the East Start meant that the pump was able to more quickly build up fuel pressure in the rail. With a replacement injector fitted the van returned normal and starts straight away.

Has the garage definately checked the injectors are not sending too much fuel back to the tank?

Retro Pedro said:

As your guy definately checked the fuel lift tank relay?
Seems to me your main pressure pump is fine. Does the car run fine once fired up, i.e. no spasmatic loss of power or cutting out. If it runs sweet as for my money its got to be something to do with the system that primes the fuel system, hence me mentioning the relay. The other possibility could be air in the system at priming stage, but if it runs OK once fired up wouldn't have thought this would be the case.
Going back to the relay, have a look at the fuse box under the steering wheel. I'm not sure if the 1.3 multijet is the same as the 1.9JTD, but if it is, trying pulling the relays out and reseating them. I'm not sure which relay is fuel lift pump related, but if there are 2 relays the same type, swap them over and see if this improves things.
Best of luck with it.

Click to expand...

On starting and running it runs like a sewing m/c and has never missed a beat.
I have a little problem with translation here but still not too bad.
I don,t think it's the main fuel pump either.

I found one relay on the fuse board under the steering wheel. This clicks slightly when ignition is switched on but when turning the starter, it clicks on/ off and harder constantly. ???? Not sure if this is correct so I have tried to find a replacement, worth a shot. Also when this relay is unplugged the electric windows don't work.

Niall_G said:

I recently had a similar problem on my Iveco Daily - lots of cranking (20 seconds) before it would fire up, much quicker to use 'Easy Start' then it ran fine. It turned out be a faulty injector allowing too much fuel back to the tank, dropping the pressure in the fuel rail and hence starving the other injectors - the increased cranking speed when running on the East Start meant that the pump was able to more quickly build up fuel pressure in the rail. With a replacement injector fitted the van returned normal and starts straight away.

Has the garage definately checked the injectors are not sending too much fuel back to the tank?

Click to expand...

Hi Nial G.
The mechanic did replace one injector he thought faulty but then it still had the same problem, so swapped it back.

jetjem said:

I found one relay on the fuse board under the steering wheel. This clicks slightly when ignition is switched on but when turning the starter, it clicks on/ off and harder constantly. ???? Not sure if this is correct so I have tried to find a replacement, worth a shot. Also when this relay is unplugged the electric windows don't work.

Click to expand...

Without meaning to have thrown you a curved ball, I don't know for sure how your 1.3 multijet compares to my 1.9JTD. Definately on mine, there are 4 relays on that fuse board with 2 of them being the same kind. I pulled all 4 off, swapped the 2 exact kinds around and refitted them. Bingo, mine fired up. I've only got the original Fiat handbook for reference and that doesn't list any relays on that fuse board hence I couldn't say for sure what was what. I don't think it even referenced fuel circuit fuses on that board, they seemed to be identified as being positioned on the fuse board under the bonnet, which at the time, lead me to believe all was OK with the electrics, because I didn't have any blown fuses etc. Thought afterwards that perhaps the handbook is generic for the whole range, hence possible discrepancies with info.
I originally got the potential relay info from the Ulysees section and that was bad news for the guy that posted. On the Ulysees, the relay was a moulded in component and it cost him £195 for the replacement part to sort his motor. I think on the Ulysees, it's a cross reference part with Peoguot/Citreon.
All the same, like you say, worth a try on your motor.

Retro Pedro said:

Without meaning to have thrown you a curved ball, I don't know for sure how your 1.3 multijet compares to my 1.9JTD. Definately on mine, there are 4 relays on that fuse board with 2 of them being the same kind. I pulled all 4 off, swapped the 2 exact kinds around and refitted them. Bingo, mine fired up. I've only got the original Fiat handbook for reference and that doesn't list any relays on that fuse board hence I couldn't say for sure what was what. I don't think it even referenced fuel circuit fuses on that board, they seemed to be identified as being positioned on the fuse board under the bonnet, which at the time, lead me to believe all was OK with the electrics, because I didn't have any blown fuses etc. Thought afterwards that perhaps the handbook is generic for the whole range, hence possible discrepancies with info.
I originally got the potential relay info from the Ulysees section and that was bad news for the guy that posted. On the Ulysees, the relay was a moulded in component and it cost him £195 for the replacement part to sort his motor. I think on the Ulysees, it's a cross reference part with Peoguot/Citreon.
All the same, like you say, worth a try on your motor.

Click to expand...

I managed to find 2 relays. One under the bonnet, the other under the steering wheel. One was clicking louder and hot. I changed them over but there's no difference.
Any help and advice whether right or wrong is very much appreciated, as my time for departure is looming.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, anything is worth a shot. I now have the Doblo at the biggest dealers in the country. They are giving it a check over and hope to tell me what is wrong. When I said I had to drive back 2,000 miles it raised a few eyebrows. So they said, I could make the decision if repairs were needed!!! I am currently in a restaurant awaiting the results.

My money is still on Retro Pedros idea that it's the lift pump from the fuel tank, I hope it's not wishful thinking.

Needs new injector and engineer is positive this is the problem. It won't work from me falls on deaf ears and 2 hours later surprise,surprise --we think there is another problem!
It may be the crank sensor---no it isn't.

I'm in a hotel for the night, and they now think it's an electrical fault :bang:

The marvels of going to a MAIN DEALERSHIP I hope I regret saying that.

I will see what tomorrow brings. All I want now is the car back as it was and I'll take my chances on the journey back to the UK.

As a just in case - have you got adequate breakdown cover that will get home should the worse happen?

Very 11th hour I know, but what about rigging up a temporary inline hand pump that you could put into the fuel return hose/pipe position. Should you get caught in a situation where it won't start, you could disconnect the fuel pipe, clip in the hand pump and draw fuel up through. Once fired up, quickly remove that hand pump and reconnect.

Appreciate it's a very redneck idea but who knows, it might get you out of a situation.

Going back to when I had the issues on my motor, I primed the main pressure pump with a hand pump and then reconnected the pipes and mine fired up and ran perfectly until I switched the ignition off.

Just an idea.

Have they scoped out the camshaft sensor?

T14086 said:

Have they scoped out the camshaft sensor?

Click to expand...

Thanks for that,
They have never mentioned the camshaft sensor but I would have a job getting that across to them.

I am resigned to driving it as it is, at least it starts with a whiff of gas or the slightest bump and then runs like a dream and occasionally with the ignition.
If I had a kickstart fitted it would only need half a kick it's that easy to start??

Forgot to mention I have to travel into the city for the internet, so thanks for the replies.

I'm back in the UK mainly thanks to Niall_G suggestion of using "Easy Start"
and starting itself 3 times off the ignition.
Never yet found a hill to park on so I could bump start it

At the time, the main Fiat dealer was leaning towards trying a new Fiat oil sensor but I had to leave before this could be tried out. My thoughts now are that the sensor may be the problem because, the problem came on slowly after about 1,000 miles and got gradually worse. So was this the oil deteriorating ?
I parked in Germany though a cold night and I thought this would test the viscosity of the oil (Millers) and sure enough it started first time. A fluke????
So an oil change is next in line to a heavier oil and see if that helps.:worship:

In praise of MAIN FIAT DEALERS-----
At the first main dealer they had the car 4 days and had 5 people try to find a fault. They tested everything they could including changing an injector and fuel filter and fitted a new starter motor that I supplied, the cost £45:slayer:

The second bigger dealer carried out the same checks including the injector and oil sensor over a day and a half, the cost £25.
There words (BOTH DEALERS)--We can not charge you when we have not fixed the problem.:worship: