Technical Won't go into reverse w/out grinding only when hot

[newportz]

Hi,

I know this gearshifting issue has been raised a few times, but no one has ever stated that their problem occurs when hot, so I thought I might have a new slant on the problem. Here's what I've done so far:

First of all I have a 2009 Doblo 1.9 mjet with 105 hp and approx 55 000 km.

What's happening: Car shifts like butter when cool and under normal running temperatures...although the reverse gear often gave a slight clunk right from new.

When the car is run in traffic or in very hot weather it becomes harder to put in any foreward gear, but it's not really problematic. Reverse, however results in a grind/grate and only after shifting into other gears before shifting again in reverse wil it actually go into reverse gear -and with a grind...though not always (to make things fun). Generally the problem is getting worse.

Here's what I've done so far:
1.Bled clutch fluid
2.Checked gear oil level
3. Checked clutch pedal free play - it's at about 1.2 cm which I think is excessive as my Punto's free play is only 0.5 cm. If someone could check theirs, I would be grateful.
4. I've tried shifting into other gears before reverse and it doesn't seem to matter which one I try. Sometimes 2nd helps more, sometimes 3rd.
5. With the engine off everything shifts fine and smoothly, so I've eliminated the cables as a reason.

Could my clutch pedal travel be off/short by a few mm and because of this thermal expansion is preventing the clutch from releasing properly?
I can't believe that after 55k the clutch is the issue - I won't believe it
So I search for a simpler solution

Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Tom

 

[newportz]

Just an update - removing the floormat seems to have helped. I guess it was a question of a couple of milimeters. Still doesn't change the fact that the bite point is so ridiculously low. The car was like that since new (more or less), so I assumed that was normal.

Do the Doblo's tend to have a low clutch bitepoint?

 

[actionman37]

my clutch bite point is really low. Had 4th gear replaced, new clutch & flywheel in Nov & done 11k since then. Reverse grinds nearly every time

 

[actionman37]

just modified my floor mat & now it goes into reverse ok spot on! Wouldn't mind but the mats aren't that thick & it hadn't moved too far forward! can't believe how low the biting point is on these

Nearly everything i've owned/driven before you could change gear without having to push the pedal all the way down with no probs at all

 

[Ulpian]

Mine's an '03 (90,000) and yes, the bite point is really low. Putting it in reverse has to be done carefully.

 

[fishboy123]

Just an update - removing the floormat seems to have helped. I guess it was a question of a couple of milimeters. Still doesn't change the fact that the bite point is so ridiculously low. The car was like that since new (more or less), so I assumed that was normal.

Do the Doblo's tend to have a low clutch bitepoint?

All Clutches can be adjusted to a desired bite point. im not sure how your clutch cable is assembled. but for example: my partner has a cinquecento and her gears were allways grinding. i just adjusted the clutch cable untill the biting point was not so low, all problems sorted.

if you dont know how to do it, just pop to your local garage and ask them to adjust the clutch, shouldnt take any longer than 20 mins. and wont cost much either.

 

[Ulpian]

Doblo cutches are hydraulic.

 

[actionman37]

Doblo cutches are hydraulic.

yep, what he said!

 

[newportz]

Yeah, it's nuts that the carpet makes such a difference on these things. While most of my problems with the grinding went away with the carpet adjustment, I would still get the intermittent grind in reverse. I did one more thing that (so far) eliminated the problem for good - loosen up the two bolts on the slave cylinder and you'll see that there is some side to side play. I held the slave cylinder over to the left and tightened the bolts again which probably gave me another 1.5mm of squeeze on the pressure plate.
Still, this can't be normal and seeing as how many people on this forum have replaced their clutches between 30k and 50k, I'm beginning to psych myself up for a clutch job

For now, I'm playing it by ear and gently shifting

Cheers

 

[Ulpian]

Mine has the ususal foibles but has done 90,000 so far and the clutch is still as Dobloesque as ever

Just been looking at the Dacia Duster. This has pretty much all my old Doblo has, plus a bit, for £13,000. Better performance and much better promised economy too. But no option of a spare wheel - boo-hoo!

I have to say I was impressed though. This is the same price as a similarly specced Qubo, cheaper actually

Mmmmmmm?????? :idea:

 

[johnhififan]

Dacia, yeah they do seem value for money no frills motoring. Yet to see one.

 

[Ulpian]

You won't until next year, they arrive in January. Renault showrooms have left hand drive ones with the 'old' dashboards so that we can take a look though. Thousands on the continent though. The Duster was the second most reliable car in Germany last year apparently

I've just been configuring new Doblos and Qubos...

Decisions decisions eh!

 

[adee1066]

Just a quick thought/suggestion,do the Doblo's have the sneaky bleed nipple on the bulkhead for bleeding the clutch,like the Multiplas do??

 

[GrandeGuy]

Has no one tried to adjust the rod length yet on the clutch master cylinder?

Nearly if not all clutch/brake cylinder rods are adjustable. Just a thought.

Also OEM Brake/clutch flexible hoses can swell like a MOFO, replacing them with a braided equivalent can do soo much to the feel of the clutch.

 

[sirias]

my multipl jtd the same cool weather drives great hot weather comes and i strugle with gears,reverse can be terible,so much knowledge on here someone should no what the problem is,also changed the crank sensor 2 years ago trouble starting the car again how long should they last ?

 

[Ulpian]

Endemic Doblo prolems:


The windscreen wiper linkages can collapse.

The aux belt pulleys and tensioners can give up the ghost at low mileages.

The rear wiper motor can give up

The clutch can become sticky and the take up can get jerky, noisy and very weird.

The headlamp bulbs are a pig to replace


There are probably others, but these problems come up time and again, and some of them with other Fiat models too.

 

[newportz]

Hi,
I thought I'd update people on what I've done with this problem. About two weeks ago I took the plunge and replaced the clutch, throwout bearing, output shaft seal and tranny fluid. The job went slow but with no significant problems. I figure if I had another few Doblo's to do, I'd be flying through these clutch changes.
Anyway, the result was a softer pedal by far where I actually felt the "jar lid" action of the pressure plate. BTW I replaced the clutch with a Valeo unit from a dealer and the tranny oil was the recommened Tuleo (?) stuff from the dealer as well. All of my gearshift problems went away. Went into reverse like butter. Yay! This was a relief since total success was not a foregone conclusion. The old pressure plate was not really worn very much. I expected that the TO bearing had dug its way into the forks - it had, but not beyond norm in my opinion. The clutch disc and surfaces of the flywheel and pressure plate also did not exhibit abnormal wear. Where I saw problems was with the TO bearing. It wasn't sliding along the shaft very smoothly as a bunch of dust from the clutch disc was preventing smooth movement. The bearing itself seemed to turn loudly and I would say was worn. The shaft that the bearing slides along (which also includes the output shaft seal) showed signs of uneven wear. Thus I hoped this was causing problems, in that perhaps the bearing wasn't withdrawing from the pressure plate forks properly, causing it and the forks to overheat and not operate properly?? It's a theory?? Another thing that I noticed was that compared to my Punto Mk2, the slave cylinder has less travel. With the Doblo JTD setup there's just not much more room for it. Though I figure that it could produce another .5cm and that might solve the problems that people have been having with these clutches.

So now, I'm driving for about 2 weeks with no problems - better than when the car was new as it seems to always give me a clunk when going into reverse - and a couple of days ago when the engine was good and hot I get the clunk going into reverse It's slight, but why the hell has it showed up again?!?

My buddy has a Bravo JTD and he had shifting issues after a year of driving. The dealer replaced the slave cylinder and the problems went away. Even though I checked the slave cylinder and master cylinder for leaks (and they were fine), I'll try and replace the slave cylinder and see what happens. As I mentioned above, the amount of TO bearing movement you get when pushing down on the clutch pedal seems to be inadequate. Maybe my TO bearing started settling into the presure plate forks and even this tiny amount might be causing clutch release problems.

I'll continue to update

 

[GrandeGuy]

Maybe try changing the clutch line for a braided one, if you've ever felt a standard clutch line they swell ridiculously! this will reduce throw out distance and makes the pedal feel crap. once changed they feel tight and totally different, also might explain the worse when hot syndrome as the pipe gets softer with heat . .

 

[obtwo]

Hi,

I'm a newbie and have got a similar problem - did you change the slave cylinder in the end? Did it help?

thanks,
Brian

 

[nexusmick]

This thread seems to be old but as I am new to the forum I thought I would try anyway. I am having this very issue with my grande punto on an 07 plate and was wondering if anybody has actually got to the bottom of this, any help would be appreciated or is it a sign that my clutch is on it's way out. I have had this car for 5 years now so am unsure if it is still the original clutch as I have no documentation to say that it has ever been replaced by the previous owner/owners ?

Thankyou to anyone that may have some thoughts on this......