Re: blocked doblo particulate filter !!!

hi ,please help im fearful to tell customer of 'my' diagnosis when a dpf is being quoted at £1910 by fiat dealer . on monday code for egr valve showed up ,vehicle went into limp home mode, i cleared code and monitored, tuesday vehicle went into limp mode again,this time code said dpf threshold ,i checked egr valve and it was full of soot ,i cleaned it and carried out regeneration,road tested and all seemed fine, after about 50 miles,car parked overnight in morning after starting car slowed right down and stalled would not restart,when back at workshop, car did not want to start,checked actuation of egr valve ,it opened about 2mm ,started car with egr to inlet pipe disconnected and it run ok.tried to regenerate dpf again but said dpf is blocked and needs changing !!!! am i doing things wrong ? or anyone had the bottle to change one .doblo 1.9 jtd 08 plate
ty

mileage?

has oil deg counter even been reset?

56000 oil deg done about 2 weeks ago ty

i'd take a closer look at that egr before even considering the dpf


(oil level?)

oil level was ilttle high ,drained ,could this cause the problem ? also how far should egr open on actuator test ? ty

oil level will rise if regeneration cannot be carried out,there isa update for the 1.9 dpf models.

regeneration carried out,been on a 225 mile run, seems to be good at moment ,fingers crossed ,all the best

T14086 said:

oil level will rise if regeneration cannot be carried out,there isa update for the 1.9 dpf models.

Click to expand...

whats update

Re: blocked doblo particulate filter !!!

richpassi said:

hi ,please help im fearful to tell customer of 'my' diagnosis when a dpf is being quoted at £1910 by fiat dealer . on monday code for egr valve showed up ,vehicle went into limp home mode, i cleared code and monitored, tuesday vehicle went into limp mode again,this time code said dpf threshold ,i checked egr valve and it was full of soot ,i cleaned it and carried out regeneration,road tested and all seemed fine, after about 50 miles,car parked overnight in morning after starting car slowed right down and stalled would not restart,when back at workshop, car did not want to start,checked actuation of egr valve ,it opened about 2mm ,started car with egr to inlet pipe disconnected and it run ok.tried to regenerate dpf again but said dpf is blocked and needs changing !!!! am i doing things wrong ? or anyone had the bottle to change one .doblo 1.9 jtd 08 plate
ty

Click to expand...

Hi there just thought i would let you know that i`ve had a call from a local garage today with a 57 plate doblo 1.9jtd doing the exact same fault as you have described, so i thought i would run through my diagnosis and maybe it might help yourself and others ?

The car cut out and when restarted was very restricted on power, fault read and came up with the egr valve fault. I stripped and cleaned egr valve (very sooty) actuated on laptop and valve would`nt move on test so tapped valve while actuating and it would move intermittent approx 4mm off seat then jam up again. Garage agreed and quickly fitted new egr valve car now started and ran a little better.

Still restricted and now came up with fault code p1206 - Clean replace particulate (oil degradation re-set was at 80% so ruled out) particulate in parameters was 136% blocked so tried a forced Regen and it would`nt complete it started revving then aborted. Put up on ramp and removed dpf and found it heavily blocked tried to clean but was fighting a uphill battle. Garage fetched new dpf from Andrew page £380.00 +vat, fitted dpf and went into adjustments and cleared dpf settings and told car new one fitted and car now run 100% better.

Road tested car and the dreaded light came on again code read and came up with 2 fault codes P1206-clean replace particulate and P0238-turbo pressure. i checked the dpf readings on live data and found the dpf temp was 30-50 degrees lower than the pre cat temp which i deemed as normal but what was odd is that the differential pressure sensor was running at 86mbar on idle after the road test. i thought this was very high and would expect to see about 10-15mbar. That aside i decided to chase the turbo fault so back at the inlet manifold i took the MAF sensor out and hey presto found it blocked with soot. Cleaned with contact cleaner and gently picked clean with probe and re-fitted. Cleared all fault codes and car now sounded awesome performed forced Regen and it did not hesitate and went straight up on the revs and completed with no faults this time.

The Differential pressure sensor now read at 11-13mbar on idle and when now revved up was very responsive so road tested and it flew. Customer drove and said its the best its ever run and problem has not happened since, what i did`nt mention is that this doblo was a town taxi and has done 96000 miles so thus the reason it was heavily blocked up.

I think if some people get to the egr and maf sensor blockage quicker they might be able to save there dpf unit and also have a easy repair, If this helps yourself or anyone else please let me know.

cheers chris

Re: blocked doblo particulate filter !!!

forrest159 said:

I think if some people get to the egr and maf sensor blockage quicker they might be able to save there dpf unit and also have a easy repair, If this helps yourself or anyone else please let me know.

cheers chris

Click to expand...

Chris,

well done with this one - it all makes a lot of sense to me

hey guys.
getting p1206 - clean or replace particulate filter on my 120k 2007 1.9 doblo so after some research ive checked MAP sensor which was very sooty, EGR was sooty too so i replaced both but none of those things solved the problem.Strange thing was that DPF obstruction was only 40%. so next thing ive done was disconnecting the maf then cleared the fault. after that
car was running ok, dpf regenerated when the obstruction hit about 80% so i thought faulty MAF so i fitted new MAF(bosch)
but the same problem was still there - 40% obstruction -> P1206 -> unplug MAF -> clear fault -> everything OK.
Then i started notice the car was smokin under hard acceleration wheter the MAF connected or not and poorer MPG so ive
checked IC and all pipes for splits, nothing found everything was dry and clean. so i decided to check injector correction
rates and inj no. 1 & 4 was about +/- 1.9 and 2 & 3 was +/- 0.6 on idle.then i took it for a spin and the correction rates
of 1 and 4 went to +/- 5.6 mm3/i. 2 and 3 stayed pretty much the same. is that mean the injectors are worn and this could
be the possible cause of the P1206 error? somebody told me the inj. correction values shouldnt go over +/- 0.9 mm3/i no matter if on idle or under the load. any suggestions?
many thanks

Since January 2009 cars (diesel engined cars produced since then) have had to have diesel particulate filters. This is a EURO 5 requirement UNLESS the engine can meet Euro 5 without a DPF. To my knowledge only the 1.3 MJET can meet Euro 5 without a DPF but would add that this depends on the specific engine configuration.

Fiat started fitting DPFs to their large diesel engines from 2005 onwards.

From my understanding if your vehicle was registered before Jan 2009 then DPF was not compulsory and you can remove the DPF (if fitted). Post 2009 I think this is is still an option BUT from January 2011 (see link http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Special Notice 01-11.pdf) VOSA are sustantially reducing the smoke limits for vehicles registered after July 2008.

So if you car was registered prior to July 2008 then DPF removal is still a possibility HOWEVER unless you inform your insurance company then you run the risk of being unisured. I would rather shell out for a DPF than be in debt for the rest of my life.

Remember you are knowingly and deliberately making a change to your vehicles specification and you can be bloody sure insurance companies leave no stone unturned in looking for ways to wriggle out of paying up for insurance claims. And remember even if the accident is not your fault you will still be declaired uninsured and subject to prosecution. If it was your fault then the judge WILL ensure that you pay for the rest of your life if you are able.

Me.... I've enquired about DPF removal costs (when coupled with the fitting of a stainless steel exhaust to OE specification) but as I don't have a DPF issue I'm only saving the info for future reference.

IMHO the whole diesel / emissions / DPF etc. in the UK is a total mess.

1) In Europe diesel fuel is much cheaper than petrol
2) In words of an oil expert "diesel is a by product which we just about give away (in Saudi)"
3) Yes soot from diesels is an issue, and I'm quite happy to do my 'green' part, but how can siezed engines, clogged DPFs (most have precious metal catalysts) etc. be green
4) To regenerate a DFP you have to burn fuel/fluid thus lowering the overall MPG and greenness of a vehicle.
5) Feeding raw soot (via EGR) back into the engine is not a good idea. The whole inlet system builds up in soot, reducing airflow and overall efficency of the engine.

All this smacks of politicians dicatating policy with little knowledge and long term vision. Yes every step one can take should be taken AS LONG AS the overall ECO footprint of the change is improved.

No doubt the governments will get their acts together till then both car manufactures and drivers will be trying to make the best of a bad thing. Remember car manufacturers DO NOT want customers crawling back with bad issues/problems. Hence recent developments in "close coupled" DPF and fulling intergrated EGR designs.

I think we have to count ourselves overall fairly lucky. I gather that in Japan (unless things have changed) getting a 3 to 5 year old car through an MOT is very very difficult. Most cars go for scrap or export. Helps keep their auto industry running as import tarrifs for foreign vehicles are very high.

bit more info

below is link to emissions so nowt to do with MOT

My 2000 frontera PPM is 0.7 so anything newer should be well lower to pass

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_740.htm

Also call insurance and say modified still cheaper than dpf

also you are doing more for the enviroment you use less fuel and do not create scrap by keep buying expensive dpfs

especially in this economic climate who wants to waste money

Sounds like a really good reason to get rid of a piece of kit we don't need, DPF's are put on by manufacturers so they can tell the world how clean their Diesel engines are, but think about this, When your ECU decides to do a regeneration of the DPF, what happens to the soot particles it blows out of your exhaust every 1200 Kms, true it won't be doing it in the stop/start of commuter driving, it will be doing it on the fast roads turning our beautiful countryside clean air dirty. Furthermore who pays for the extra fuel it uses to do this procedure... we do. Worst still what happens if you don't drive at high speeds? The DPF won't regenerate, it will just clog up resulting in a loss of power, increased fuel consumption and eventually end up in "Limp mode". Your friendly main agent will then flog you a replacement DPF for £900+ and you will think I won't be buying another Fiat. Well you take heart from the fact that VW's, PSA and GM DPF's cost as much if not more. So get rid of it, have it remapped (essential cos it will still try to regenerate a DPF that is no longer there) and while you are there have it re-mapped with a performance file (no extra cost) and boy will you notice the difference.

CTIS the soot is not blown out of the exhaust!

Its burnt, hence the DPF getting to 600+ degrees C!

All that comes out of the exhaust is a few sparks (reported on forced regen) and a lot of CO2 gas.

Yes it uses extra fuel and the Governments are definitely acting a bit stupid about the amount of Tax we pay for fuel but I do not think we are likely at the moment to be able to get the fuel duty reduced..

It is unlikely that you will uses any more fuel say on the motorway when the heat from the exhaust gasses are more than hot enough to get the DPF up to 600 Deg C and above. The only time it will cost you money is if you don't go for a run at speed once a month or so.

As pointed out by S130 remapping invalidates your insurance unless you tell them and if you do tell them guess what.. its cost you more money!

So our wallets get burnt which ever way we go..

I for one hate driving behind a Diesel which bellows out smoke when its given the "beans" at traffic lights.

DPF's are not yet perfect.. but then early Catalytic Converters in cars were terrible and hardly ever worked in town driving so did nothing to improve town air quality, which was the intention.. however the new cats are excellent and "light up" very quickly, I really dislike following De-catted cars cos they stink!

Given a couple more years development I think DPF's will be a whole lot better than the things we are dealing with now.

Well Waddo, it looks like soot to me when the DPF re-generates, but I'm no scientist, according to you it's sparks and CO2, that scares me more !! I cannot go with your idea of blasting up motorways at 80+ for a couple of hours just to force a re-generation. How often are you having to service it? Are the sparks bits of your engine? I hope not. Diesel engines are improving all the time and the fuel companies are mixing a higher percentage of Bio-diesel these days so DPF's will be consigned to the history books. Soot particles from Diesel engines are unpleasant but not lethal like Petrol engine emissions. DPF removal and re-map save me money everytime I use my vehicles and will save me a huge amount with not having to replace something that is unecessary, the job done on my exhaust is undetectable with the naked eye and the software was undetectable by the main agents equipment.
Still on my soapbox.... I have tried every additive known to man regarding Diesel engines and have yet to find one that works beyond the 1 month placebo effect. It's over to you guys keep going with your experiences and opinions it is what makes this a great forum.:slayer:

citds.. Going for a drive up the motorway dose not "force a regeneration" a regeneration only happens when the DPF blocks with soot. A quick blast up the motorway ones a month or so will clear the soot by naturally raising the temperature of the DPF to a level where the soot will naturally burn off. Hence no need for a regeneration to take place..

It also helps the engine oil get rid of mositure and nasties that will build up in your oil if the engine is frequently used for short trips and rarely gets up to proper working temperature.

With regard to sparks coming out of the exhaust I am only repeating what other people have reported when doing a Forced regeneration of a very heavily blocked DPF.

Funnily enough bio-diesel seems to increase the amount of smoke produced not reduce it.. According to all the research I've read on the subject.. 50% is the Maximum most engines can handle...

Since cars have been fitted with working Catalytic converters the emissions are a lot safer than the emissions form Diesels soot or no soot.

The fine particulate soot emitted from diesels is a great health risk.. it is very cancerous stuff and can get far deeper in the lungs than normal smoke can get.(i.e from Fags)

citds you will never agree with anything anyone posts unless it helps you get more sales.

None of this is going to help Vekac sort his engine problems..

Has anyone got any suggestions about the injector correction rates?

dpfs are not needed they do not make it run better.

the addition of extra bio in fuel actually causes more problems in a dpf

its only the hippies greens and bureaucrats in europe that want them .

the diesel engine runs well without any daft additions like egr dpf and cats .

if you wish to pay out money to garages to clean dpfs and egrs thats up to you but a decent blanking plate on a 1.4 or 1.9 multijet removal of the dpf will save you money on servicing .

Also forget all the daft bull about biodiesel the fuel systems are not designed to run on them .

most bio installtions need fuel heating which causes seals to go in the pump more money again

know a bloke who ran chip fat (bio) he ended up scrapping the car prematurely the tank looked like a chip shop fryer and pump was full of lard .

you had to scrape it out with a spatula

Wad2502.... for your information, I am not employed by Longlife. I have my own business transporting disabled people about so the sales snipe is out of order. I happen to agree with lots of people on this forum including some of the stuff you have posted. I am only passing on my experience for the benefit of other Doblo users, I have experience with many marques but at this moment I am extolling the virtues of a lesser known gem ie. Fiat Doblo's and what you can do to improve them and save money at the same time. :slayer:

Sorry if I got it wrong.

However you just kept posting exactly the same advert for one company everywhere!

Hence my strong suspicion you were only punting for business.

We are all simply passing on our experiences..

My experience is you don't need to waste money replacing the DPF when it can be kept in good condition by simply knowing how to keep it in excellent working order.

When mine finally craps out (its still going strong after 115k miles) I might well replace it with a bit of pipe and a remap.. however until that time I want to save myself the extra cost that this will entail as long as possible..

All this arguing is not helping Vekac any.. I for one am not sure removing his DPF will stop the error he's getting.

Anybody got any other suggestions?

I know Turbo's create a lot of smoke (engine oil leaking past the slip rings) just before they die usually.. Hopefully its not that.