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Old 08-09-2018   #16
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Re: Power loss

Hi Brian.

Excuse my ignorance but when you say blank the EGR, can you explain what this means and how to do carry this out. Having just stripped and cleaned the EGR I cannot visualise what this means.

When the weather allows it I will look to changing the fuel filter but if the filter is clogged surely the starting would be effected. It starts normally, by this I mean it starts as it has always done, no different and as I said at the beginning it runs ok under town driving, hardy notice there is a problem.

Might try to see if I can connect with MES tomorrow weather and time permitting.
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Old 09-09-2018   #17
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Re: Power loss

Hi Dave, when I was diagnosing the egr problems on mine years ago with the help of people on here it involved trimming a soup tin lid (please don't all scream at once ) into the shape of one of the gaskets and drilling 2 holes for the bolts to go through.

I then replaced the existing gasket with the temporary soup tin gasket and cured the problem. Note that the check engine light will come on immediately due to insufficient gas reflow. Don't worry about that, it will clear itself after 3 restarts with the original gaskets in place or via mes.

On the shortest run possible check that your problem has been solved and then remove the piece of tin immediately. If it breaks whilst fitted you will ruin your engine.

If you are happy that your existing egr was clean then you'll need to change it.
also buy a proper swirl mod or bullet hole gasket and use that in future. You need one with some holes but only the minimum to keep the check engine light off.

If you've got heavier gauge metal than tin use that to test but don't be tempted to drill the bullet holes yourself unless you are very confident that you've got all the metal and swarf out. The proper ones only cost a few pounds off ebay and can even be ordered from a fiat dealer if you are feeling particularly wealthy.

Some people used to blank the egr completely and get the message blanked out via software. Maybe someone could confirm whether that would be an mot fail if spotted?
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Last edited by BrianMcL; 09-09-2018 at 09:50.
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Old 09-09-2018   #18
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Re: Power loss

When my original egr failed it was most noticeable going uphill to begin with and gradually got worse.

The engine "stuttered" around 1800 to 2000 revs and then seemed to carry on ok. Over time it got worse to the point where the dealer said they couldn't repair it.

If you've got time read back through my early posts on here - they cover everything to do with this problem.

If it hadn't been for the support of the guys on here a perfectly good car with less than 4 years on it would have been sold for buttons at auction so thanks once again everyone.
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Old 09-09-2018   #19
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
Robert is quite correct and the right tool for the job is generally an essential approach. Other methods require extreme care/caution.

The Croma diesel filter ring nut is designed to be manually tightened and un-tightened. Sadly some (either from factory or after garage services) go beyond hand tightness removal.

<SNIP>

I have to disagree slightly, Fiat quote a torque for the fuel filter ring

Component
Fastening
dia
Value (daNm)
Validity
Ring nut fixing fuel filter cover
-
-
3.0
1.9 JTD 8v
1.9 JTD 16v

You can't set 3.0 daNm by hand.






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Old 09-09-2018   #20
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by Daveof49 View Post
Hi Brian.

Excuse my ignorance but when you say blank the EGR, can you explain what this means and how to do carry this out. Having just stripped and cleaned the EGR I cannot visualise what this means.

When the weather allows it I will look to changing the fuel filter but if the filter is clogged surely the starting would be effected. It starts normally, by this I mean it starts as it has always done, no different and as I said at the beginning it runs ok under town driving, hardy notice there is a problem.

Might try to see if I can connect with MES tomorrow weather and time permitting.

Blocking the EGR may be OK for diagnostics but permanent blanking or mapping out is illegal. The latest MOT changes check for obvious modification of emissions controls but it's unclear how far a given examiner will go.
As Brin say this will also cause the fault light to come on. A 8V EGR valve sticking open can be buildup in the solenoid rather than the valve so ot's worth checking this. I did a guide on fitting a "swirl plate" on the 16V engine:
https://www.fiatforum.com/miscellane...tallation.html
The 8V is similar but the plate is the same lozenge shape as the inlet gasket.
It may be worth looking at the EGR parameters in MES and actuating it "manually" through MES. The notes for EGR actuator solenoid valve say

"This function activates the EGR valve and control solenoid. Please observe:
- Clicking sound from the related relay
\- Clicking sound from EGR valve
- The correct operation of the selected device
- Changes in engine RPM and sound (if the test is executed with engine running)"
This is a lot easier than blanking.


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Old 09-09-2018   #21
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Re: Power loss

For the 150BHP 16V engine the Fiat Part Number for the EGR restrictor plate is 55225287. This number may have been superseded but your local Fiat dealer parts department will/should spot this and use the later part number.

Avoid part number 71751468 as this part is much more expensive and does not have the integral rubber/silicon seals.
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Old 09-09-2018   #22
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
I have to disagree slightly, Fiat quote a torque for the fuel filter ring of 3.0 daNm.

You can't set 3.0 daNm by hand.
Robert G8RPI.
Well it is slightly marginal I think.

3.0 daNm is 22 foot-pounds to be applied to a ribbed near 6 inch diameter ring nut.

I accept this is very two hand tight but in all the fuel filter changes I did I never had a leak and found the ring nut still often a challenge to remove again at the next service. Would add that we are talking about a two arm twist as opposed to a typical screwdriver wrist twist action.
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Old 09-09-2018   #23
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Re: Power loss

I think the big isssue with the fuel filter housing is people using strap wrenches or "pump pliers" on them. They distort the ring stopping the torque being appied properly, The proper tool applies torque at 3 poins 120 degrees apart witout clamping or distorting it.

Hand tightning is better than the wrong tool.


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Last edited by g8rpi; 09-09-2018 at 12:22.
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Old 30-11-2018   #24
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Re: Power loss

Changed the Mass Air Sensor and it seems to have worked. Got more response when accelerating, not brilliant but don't suppose performance has ever been fantastic with the Croma
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Old 30-11-2018   #25
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by Daveof49 View Post
Changed the Mass Air Sensor and it seems to have worked. Got more response when accelerating, not brilliant but don't suppose performance has ever been fantastic with the Croma
The 16V is certainly nippy enough. It would be worth resetting the learnt parameters with Multiecuscan. The ECU may have learnt some bad habits compensating for the faulty MAP sensor.

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Last edited by g8rpi; 01-12-2018 at 18:34.
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Old 01-12-2018   #26
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
It would be worth restting the learnt parameters with Multiecuscan. The ECU may have learnt some bad habits comensating for the faulty MAP sensor.

Robert G8RPI.
Very valid point to make. Fiat had issues with learnt parameters a few years ago where new cars with cold engines had the nuts revved of them during the transported loading phase. ECU learnt that normal starting and drive cycle procedure/parameters are cold engine, start, full power high revs followed by engine off. (in the early days of adaptive ECUs)
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