General Whats missing?

[chrisbott]

Hi all.
I have just brought a croma 1.9 diesel.
After a while it begins to smoke really badly and I have to open the bonnet and turn 4 plastic plugs. (See Pics)
I know there is supposed to be some sort of bar that connects them but I have never seen or know what it looks like, so finding one has proved rather difficult.
I was told I could just glue them in place..but that sounds a bit dodgy to me.
Could anyone help please.
Thanks in advance.

 

[g8rpi]

Hi all.
I have just brought a croma 1.9 diesel.
After a while it begins to smoke really badly and I have to open the bonnet and turn 4 plastic plugs. (See Pics)
I know there is supposed to be some sort of bar that connects them but I have never seen or know what it looks like, so finding one has proved rather difficult.
I was told I could just glue them in place..but that sounds a bit dodgy to me.
Could anyone help please.
Thanks in advance.

Hi and welcome to Fiat Forum and the Croma ,
Is it an 8 valve (120hp) or 16V (150hp) engine? Looks like a 16V and someone has removed the swirl vanes/flaps but not done a great job of sealing them. Easy fix is to fit better blanks. Search ebay or amazon etc for Vectra C swirl flap. A random example is https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181772273118
I've no personal experience of this item or seller. You will find other swirl flap info on the forum if you search. The car wll run without the flaps fitted.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[chrisbott]

Thank you very much for your information. At least I now know what they are. Will I need to remove the manifold to fit blanking plugs...or can it be done without?

 

[s130]

Will confirm that these are the swirl flaps and what is missing is the bar that links them.

When you say smoking badly I assume that the smoke is from under the bonnet and not out of the exhaust? Your clarification on this would be helpful.

As you know you will find 4 of these when looking at them. No.1 through 3 only have top side actuator linkages/swivels which a followers of No.4. No.4 has top and bottom actuator linkages. The bottom one on No.4 is actually connected to the motor driven actuator which reside under the inlet manifold.

See: https://www.fiatforum.com/croma-ii/305729-swirl-flaps.html?p=3094931

and video.

Now for the not so fun information. Swirl valve removal is I gather not an easy task in that to do it properly *may* require removal of the inlet manifold and plenum chamber. Whilst I gather No.1, 2 and three can be extracted without removal of the inlet manifold doing so on No.4 will leave a hole on the underside of the inlet manifold which will also need blanking off. Not having done this job myself and knowing space and vertical/perpendicular access to the items is probably the main issue on removal and blanking off.

Assuming the smoking is coming from the top areas of the swirl valves then as a first attempt then I would be tempted to thoroughly clean and degrease the area and then silicon seal over the top of the valves *AFTER* making sure the valves are in the fully open position.

Another good place to look for info is in the various Vectra / Signum forums on the web.

 

[g8rpi]

Hi
If you silicon seal over the flaps remember to disconnect the actuator.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[chrisbott]

Thank you s130.
The bad smoking is out of the exhaust not under the bonnet.
Numbers 1, 2 and 4 are the only ones that vibrate round. Number 3 seems to be stuck in one position and never moves.
As long as the little plastic stub are positioned towards the window screen, the car seems to run well. Its only when they vibrate round, the trouble starts.

 

[s130]

Thank you s130.
The bad smoking is out of the exhaust not under the bonnet.
Numbers 1, 2 and 4 are the only ones that vibrate round. Number 3 seems to be stuck in one position and never moves.
As long as the little plastic stub are positioned towards the window screen, the car seems to run well. Its only when they vibrate round, the trouble starts.

Well for use this is GOOD news. When I saw the oil/cack around the swirl valve tops I was thinking that when on high turbo boost some of the filthy air/soot/oil mix (air/egr crud/turbo oil) was being blown out past the flap seals.

What I would now do is scrap the sealing and try the following.

1) obtain and fit the linkage bar
2) tie the linkage bar in the left most position (flaps fully open)
3) disconnect the lower linkage drive actuator bar *if* required

I say required because it may already be detached. To check this then when the engine is stopped (or at idle when fully warm) then if the No.4 flap is left most (full acw) and then as the revs are lifted it moves to the right (CW) and moves back to fully ACW at over 3000 rpm then the linkage is still connected.

Of course this assumes that you do no want to reinstate the swirl flap operation :yuck:

In your case I suspect the top bar was deliberatively remove OR was popping off under actuation due one or more stiff flaps.

I was lucky with my 2005 Croma in that the swirl flaps either never worked (programmed out by Fiat due to typical issues) or something else failed. Either was I never had any performance issue including when towing.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Without correct functioning swirlflaps, the emmisions will be changed, ergo: not roadlegal in the UK that is..

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ansaugkrumm...221190?hash=item2c8d3e2506:g:l8cAAOSwT2daN8tT

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Or this ( not road legal in the UK)

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Drallklappe...303248?hash=item2a535e1d50:g:wN8AAOSwx2dYI4bT

 

[s130]

Without correct functioning swirlflaps, the emmisions will be changed, ergo: not roadlegal in the UK that is..

Not sure I entirely agree with you on this Peter and you know I'm normally a stickler for this sort of stuff.

The primary function of swirl is to improve torque and Pick-Up at lower rpm. Swirl helps distribute, disturb and aid more even atomisation within the combustion chamber by increasing air velocity into the cylinder creating swirl.

Now I will grant you that better combustion and pick-up can reduce fuelling required and thus a leaner and cleaner burn but the primary emissions reduction mechanisms on modern diesels are CATs, EGR (for NOX) and DPF (particulates).

Current UK MOT will only detect CO, Lamda (air/fuel ratio parameters) CO levels, HC (hydrocarbon levels) and particulate levels. These equate to CAT performance, lambda sensor operation, knackered engine and DPF filter performance. There is also with regards to emissions an overriding additional control/test factor in that if say a CAT or DPF was fitted when manufactured then these MUST be present on visible inspection. The fact that people may have gutted their CAT or DPF is not inspect able other than from measurement tests.

We won't go down the insurance position here because "broken swirl flaps" is not a modification and is not a testable road-worthy (MOT) parameter.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

http://www.autolusso.co.uk/swirl-flap.html

 

[flisko]

Without correct functioning swirlflaps, the emmisions will be changed, ergo: not roadlegal in the UK that is..

emmisions test fail?