Register Login
The UK's No.1 Chrysler Owners Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 29-12-2016   #31
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Croatia 
Re: Low velocity shake

I have exactly the same issue on my croma 2.4
- I changed recently left and right inner driveshafts as car shaked around 70-80 km/h
- after that car started shaking about 30 km/h as you described
- it shakes only under load (up-hill), on downhill there is no shake
- car shakes in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear around 30 km/h
- it means the driveshaft could be the problem
- when the car is cold it shakes less (strange) - didn't find the logical connection for that reason

Possible next steps of my diagnosis
- Outer shafts: switch left and right outer shafts (they are same)

Please lets us know if you already found the root cause
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

ivanjuaric is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-01-2017   #32
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Finland 
Re: Low velocity shake

So now there are three of us with the problem but unfortunately no one with a solution Be assured that I'll let the world know if it's ever found.

Quote Originally Posted by ivanjuaric View Post
- when the car is cold it shakes less (strange) - didn't find the logical connection for that reason
I have noticed the same thing. Something changes its properties when the engine/transmission unit or the engine bay warms up. Maybe the engine mountings get softer?

The car is going to the FIAT garage again this week, they will dismantle and check the 25000 km old tulip joint. Seems I have cornered them - either a driveshaft has failed again and they have to repair it under warranty, or the driveshafts are OK and they have replaced a joint for no reason and have to give me back money
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

ojh is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-01-2017   #33
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: cheshire
Posts: 339
Thanks: 19
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

Maybe its a misfire when cold.About a month ago now i noticed a shake on mine when cold at about 40 mph.I knew exactly what it was,run very low on fuel but thats another story.This does seem a problem,why doesnt someone run one on a rolling road and have a look around?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

buster is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-01-2017   #34
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 5,918
Thanks: 466
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

Out of curiosity I did a search for Vectra C vibration. A fair few threads to be found, but this one seemed most interesting.
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/for...showtopic=5411

Seems that balancing the wheels using the centre hole does not work well, needs more expensive kit that balances it by mounting it using the stud holes. Worth a try.
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 14 years Driving Instructor & 7 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-01-2017   #35
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: cheshire
Posts: 339
Thanks: 19
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

That is a very good point.I remember my dad having the same problem with his c5 years ago.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

buster is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-01-2017   #36
`
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,113
Thanks: 182
Trader Rating: 0
flisko has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Out of curiosity I did a search for Vectra C vibration. A fair few threads to be found, but this one seemed most interesting.
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/for...showtopic=5411

Seems that balancing the wheels using the centre hole does not work well, needs more expensive kit that balances it by mounting it using the stud holes. Worth a try.
interesting, didnt even know you can balance wheels on bolt holes
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

flisko is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-01-2017   #37
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Bulgaria 
Re: Low velocity shake

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Out of curiosity I did a search for Vectra C vibration. A fair few threads to be found, but this one seemed most interesting.
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/for...showtopic=5411

Seems that balancing the wheels using the centre hole does not work well, needs more expensive kit that balances it by mounting it using the stud holes. Worth a try.
I don't think that this is our case... If it was tires, why shaking is only under load? On downhill there is no shake...
Еlse that I noticed is that if I start at full throttle and passed quickly in this range (between 20 and 30 km/h) shaking is hardly felt.. but if I accelerate slowly, especially uphill - it's quite strong
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Ndaskalov1914 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-01-2017   #38
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 5,918
Thanks: 466
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

As there are a lot more Vauxhall/Opel Vectras around, these are likely to see any issues more than the Croma. Keep searching the Vauxhall forums for a possible diagnosis.
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 14 years Driving Instructor & 7 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-01-2017   #39
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Bulgaria 
Re: Low velocity shake

I have a bad feeling that this is due to automatic gearbox.. diff or torque converter.. but this things are hard to diagnose
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Ndaskalov1914 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-01-2017   #40
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Finland 
Re: Low velocity shake

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Out of curiosity I did a search for Vectra C vibration. A fair few threads to be found, but this one seemed most interesting.
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/for...showtopic=5411

Seems that balancing the wheels using the centre hole does not work well, needs more expensive kit that balances it by mounting it using the stud holes. Worth a try.
From the thread mentioned above:

>My 2001 Vectra B has 61k - bought it recently. Steering wheel was
>off centre and vibrations from around 60mph
>...
>I now have a vibrating steering wheel at 78-82mph.

My car vibrates at 15-20 mph, I highly doubt that wheel unbalance would manifest itself in such a low speed. The vibration also occurs with both summer and winter tires that are on their own rims.

It seems that driveshafts can't be blamed after all. The garage dismantled the 25000 km old shaft and showed me pics of the tulip, no apparent signs of wear.

A auto box specialist test drove my car his opinion was the box can't be broken because there are no extra noises.

I'm beginning to suspect the engine mountings. Now I'd like to know, are any of the Croma's mountings liquid filled?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

ojh is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-01-2017   #41
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: cheshire
Posts: 339
Thanks: 19
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

I doubt the gearbox has failed.Instead of guessing why dont you run it on a rolling road and watch what happens?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

buster is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-01-2017   #42
Moderator
 
g8rpi's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 3,947
Thanks: 394
Trader Rating: 0
g8rpi has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

From your early work you did some vibration/spectral analysis. I assume you have access to accellerometers and a FFT analyser or similar. The 3x wheel frequency you saw certainly seemed to be related to the tripod joint. Can you do some more analysis with this kit? I'm not sure that problems would show up as visible wear in the tulip. On non-auto models re-greasing the tulip often helped and there were long discussions about using the exact amount and type of grease. I think there is some kind of geometric lock-up going on in the Tulip. Gearbox / engine mounts could affect this by changing shaft positions etc.
There are 3 engine / gearbox mounts and they ll seem to be simple rubber types. The rear gearbox mount would likely have most effect. They cost around €50 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Febi-Bilst...item25b180540b
It would be worth having look it or possibly just changing it.

Robert G8RPI.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

g8rpi is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-01-2017   #43
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 5,918
Thanks: 466
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

Great the way things trigger memories.
A good shout to look at engine mountings.
When British Leyland introduced the Princess model, in 1975, there were problems with driveshaft vibration on manual models. The auto was OK.
The fault was eventually found to be the engine position, and the mountings were changed to alter the engine height in relation to the driveshafts.

Weak mountings will allow the engine to drop a little, and the Vectra/Croma may be quite susceptible to this.

Have a very good look at the engine mountings. Do they look even slightly sagged?
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 14 years Driving Instructor & 7 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 06-01-2017   #44
Moderator
 
g8rpi's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 3,947
Thanks: 394
Trader Rating: 0
g8rpi has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Great the way things trigger memories.
A good shout to look at engine mountings.
When British Leyland introduced the Princess model, in 1975, there were problems with driveshaft vibration on manual models. The auto was OK.
The fault was eventually found to be the engine position, and the mountings were changed to alter the engine height in relation to the driveshafts.

Weak mountings will allow the engine to drop a little, and the Vectra/Croma may be quite susceptible to this.

Have a very good look at the engine mountings. Do they look even slightly sagged?
One thing just occurred to me, we keep talking about automatics, but these Cromas have the 5 cylinder engine which is longer and heavier. This will put more strain on the mounts.


Robert G8RPI.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

g8rpi is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 06-01-2017   #45
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: sheffield
Posts: 419
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Low velocity shake

Quote Originally Posted by ojh View Post
From the thread mentioned above:

>My 2001 Vectra B has 61k - bought it recently. Steering wheel was
>off centre and vibrations from around 60mph
>...
>I now have a vibrating steering wheel at 78-82mph.

My car vibrates at 15-20 mph, I highly doubt that wheel unbalance would manifest itself in such a low speed. The vibration also occurs with both summer and winter tires that are on their own rims.

It seems that driveshafts can't be blamed after all. The garage dismantled the 25000 km old shaft and showed me pics of the tulip, no apparent signs of wear.

A auto box specialist test drove my car his opinion was the box can't be broken because there are no extra noises.

I'm beginning to suspect the engine mountings. Now I'd like to know, are any of the Croma's mountings liquid filled?
When you looked at the pics were there any grease apparent?
The Fiat manual I have states the grade and amount of grease for the tulip joint as Tutela MRM Zero 140gms. When I changed the outer shaft for a new one it only reduced the wobble by 50% but when the correct amount of the right grease was packed into the joint it almost disappeared even with a "worn " tulip .
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

tarquin1867 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(Tu) droping a 1.6 vw velocity engine in my palio 1.2? wise or waste of time? bloop Palio 10 12-06-2013 05:39
(T) Punto constant velocity joint jte Punto (Mk2/2b) 2 16-10-2012 16:43
(G) 500 (Shake Baby Shake) sikersh 500 1 24-09-2007 19:31
(T) Termial Velocity Problem bludvl_x19 X1/9 11 26-03-2007 03:02
what make is velocity? beau I.C.E 4 27-10-2005 10:50