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Old 21-06-2015   #1
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Question Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Hi all!

I'm a new member on this forum and a new owner of a 2006 Fiat Croma 1.9 JTD 16V 110 kW / 150 HP with 6 gear Aisin AWTF-80 SC automatic gearbox. I was googling a bit regarding the oil change in the gearbox and Fiat doesn't advise any oil changes as far as I'm aware of, but other manufacturers that use identical gearbox in their vehicles, such as Volvo, Saab etc. do, and they advise the oil change on every 60.000 km I think. The car has 200.000 km, and as far as I know, previous owners didn't change the oil in the gearbox. I'm not asking these questions because there is anything wrong with the gearbox, it works very well, no problems at all but, since I just bought the car I want it to work normaly in the future as weel. So here are my options:

1. ) Don't touch the gearbox as long as it works normaly, this means no oil change.

2. ) Lets say that the oil has never been change in these 200.000 km, can something go wrong if I change the oil now? Some say not to change the oil if it hasn't been changed regulary, some say change it as soon as possible to avoid possible gearbox damage?

3. ) Give 300€ and change the oil in the gearbox and see what happens? Oil would be changed proffessionaly, pumped into the gearbox so long, until the oil that exits the gearbox is crystal clear, meaning that there is only new oil in the gearbox (tim eckart methode).


And for the tyres, which tyres would you recommend, soft or hard tyres? Some say that this car uses the edges of the tyres so you have to use harder tyres?

Thank you for all your answers in advance
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Last edited by bvader; 21-06-2015 at 21:19.
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Old 21-06-2015   #2
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Welcome the world of Croma!
On the gearbox fluid, the first question is how long do you intend keeping the car for? If it's a long term daily runner, I'd say it is worth changing the fluid. If oyu are not sure, and it's running OK, I'd leave it until you have decided to keep it or not. Changing the fluid will not put any value on the car.
Personally I'd go for a conventional drain and re-fill, not the vacuum out or flush through method. There is a Saab tutorial here http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=270945
Note that this gearbox does not have a filter so that's one less thing to worry about. It also appears that Ford oil may be cheaper.

HTH,
Robert G8RPI.
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Old 22-06-2015   #3
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Hi

I've a Croma 1.9 150hp and automatic transmission with 382.000 km and it's still good.
Even if the manual says not to do the oil change: do it!

I did it at least 3 times till now.
To measure the oil level there is a particular and complicated procedure to do, written in the workshop manual. You have to read oil temperature with a diagnosis etc.
Or...you have to do the oil change with the engine completely cold and refill with the exact quantity you drag out.
This because this oil increase volume a lot when hot.

The problem is that the only way to do a correct and total change is, as you said, your point 3.

When you drag oil in the "traditional" way...you drag out a very minimal quantity. Last time I did it, at 300.000 km (I think I've to do it again soon...) I did it several times consequently in different days...to change a good percentage of oil (I repeat: you have to do it with car completely cold).
If I remember well (I've to find where I wrote it) you can change only 3 litres per time on....maybe 8 litres?
So you have to do it some times to do a good change percentage!

if i remember well, you have to use oil respecting Aw-1 specs

Read this (it's the same transmission) http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showth...n-fluid-change

For tyres....I had 17"....I changed them with 16": definitly better!
I use 215-55-16 Lassa Phenoma (a Bridgestone brand): very good for price/quality
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Last edited by albyhf; 22-06-2015 at 12:22.
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Old 22-06-2015   #4
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Hi!

Thank you both for your answers.

@ g8rpi:

Yes I want to keep the car at least for a few years since I've just bought it, that is why I'm thinking about long term maintenance.

I'm not a huge fan of the conventional method when you realease an amount of oil and replace that amount with new oil. Yes I know that this gearboxes don't have filters in them, I've also found that guide how to change oil by yourself but is I said, I'm not a mechanic so I'll let someone to do the oil change for me.


@ albyhf:

Looks like we own the same type of Croma When was the first time you've changed the oil in the gearbox, how many kilometers did the car have at that point?

Here in Slovenia I contacted a guy who does maintenance on automatic gearboxes and refurbishes them and he is knows this type of the gearbox very well he said. He is using this Tim Eckart methode to replace the full amount of oil in the gearbox. First he pumps a cleaning fluid into the gearbox, then he drives with the car for about 15 minutes or so, so that the cleaning fluid gets in every compartment of the gearbox. Then he replaces the oil in the car, the car is running during the process if I understood correctly. The price for Croma is 300€. What are the prices in Italy like for this type of procedure?


About the tires, I'll take something in between then, not too soft and not too hard, mid to high range tire because it's a heavy car and the tires have to be of a very good quality, I don't want to end in the ditch or something similar
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Old 22-06-2015   #5
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post


@ albyhf:

Looks like we own the same type of Croma When was the first time you've changed the oil in the gearbox, how many kilometers did the car have at that point?

Here in Slovenia I contacted a guy who does maintenance on automatic gearboxes and refurbishes them and he is knows this type of the gearbox very well he said. He is using this Tim Eckart methode to replace the full amount of oil in the gearbox. First he pumps a cleaning fluid into the gearbox, then he drives with the car for about 15 minutes or so, so that the cleaning fluid gets in every compartment of the gearbox. Then he replaces the oil in the car, the car is running during the process if I understood correctly. The price for Croma is 300. What are the prices in Italy like for this type of procedure?


About the tires, I'll take something in between then, not too soft and not too hard, mid to high range tire because it's a heavy car and the tires have to be of a very good quality, I don't want to end in the ditch or something similar
(You are welcome! But...could you use the on the bottom-right side of the message? I've not received a thanks yet)

I don't remember the first oil change...maybe at 120.000? After at 200.000 and finally at 300.000.
And always with the traditional method...so I really don't know how does it cost in Italy...
I'm looking for a Croma with less km...maybe on that one I will do the full-change, so I'll tell you.

About tyres: I used Bridgestone (a lot of), Pirelli, Hankook....
I repeat: Lassa Phenoma are great.
They say that tyres have the same Bridgestone structure.
I believe it
Never had a little problem in stability (especially with rain), noise, comfort and so on. The same of expensive ones.
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Old 22-06-2015   #6
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post

About the tires, I'll take something in between then, not too soft and not too hard, mid to high range tire because it's a heavy car and the tires have to be of a very good quality, I don't want to end in the ditch or something similar
About the heavy car....you'll be surprised from its roadholding
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Old 22-06-2015   #7
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Thanks for the info about the oil change. I'll think about it a bit and I'll se what I'll do.

Yes I know, the car sits on the road very well.

So today I experienced the first problem, when driving on the highway with cruise control set to 140 km/h at one point the speed started to decrease and for a moment I said, this isn't riht, the computer should hold the spet I've set and at the same moment i see the orange engine line on the dashboard, it is a DPF filter problem. The car went to safe mode and I couldn't drive faster than 130 km/h. I knew that the pevious owner had these problems with DPF from time to time but I didn't think that would happen to me after just after 3 days of use of the car now I'm seriousl thinking about DPF removal, EGR block and ECU remap for DPF and EGR deactivation.
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Old 22-06-2015   #8
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

First thing to do is make sure the engine ECU has been "told" that the oil has been changed. With the mJTD this must be done as a separate operation from resetting the service counter. It needs a Fiat specific interface and software such as Fiat's own Examiner, Multiecuscan or AlfaOBD. Most garages do NOT know about this and most generic diagnostic tools just reset the service counter, not the ECU oil change. My Croma had a full Fiat dealer/specialist service history, but the number of oil changes the ECU had been reset for was two less than the number in the book.

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Last edited by g8rpi; 22-06-2015 at 20:49.
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Old 22-06-2015   #9
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
I'm seriousl thinking about DPF removal, EGR block and ECU remap for DPF and EGR deactivation.
Do this and you will not regret
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Old 22-06-2015   #10
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Quote Originally Posted by albyhf View Post
Do this and you will not regret
Just check your local regulations first.
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Old 22-06-2015   #11
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
First thing to do is make sure the engine ECU has been "told" that the oil has been changed. With the mJTD this must be done as a separate operation from resetting the service counter. It needs a Fiat specific interface and software such as Fiat's own Examiner, Multiecuscan or AlfaOBD. Most garages do NOT know about this and most generic diagnostic tools just reset the service counter, not the ECU oil change. My Croma had a full Fiat dealer/specialist service history, but the number of oil changes the ECU had been reset for was two less than the number in the book.

Robert G8RPI.
Good point. I know my mechanic (and the previous owner of the car) was talking about some counter that he first forgot to reset but afterwards he did reset it so this shouldn't be the problem but it is undoubtedly worth double checking. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 22-06-2015   #12
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Quote Originally Posted by albyhf View Post
Do this and you will not regret
I will certainly do that if the ecu oil change counter has been reset properly. If it has been, DPF is going out because I don't have the money nor the will to stress out over this filter.

As far as regulations go, there aren't any dust particles measurements at the technical exam that you have to go over yearly if the car is more than 8 years old so that should not be a problem. My only second thought is if the removal of DPF can damage the car in any way or have an overall negative effect on the vehicle.
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Old 22-06-2015   #13
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
My only second thought is if the removal of DPF can damage the car in any way or have an overall negative effect on the vehicle.

Absolutely not.
Why? DPF and EGR exist only for ecological purposes.
They cause damages to the engine and negative effects on the vehicle.
DPF, clogging apart, with regenerations causes high temperatures (not good for severals components) and diesel fuel that dilute engine oil.
EGR causes dirty that accumulates everywhere. You don't have any idea about intake manifold shrinked inside because full of dirty caused by egr....
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Old 22-06-2015   #14
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

That is great. I never had a diesel car before, before this I drove a Honda Civic which was a great car, 6 years not a problem but if I think long term, I will have kids eventualy and this friend of mine was selling this great car and I couldn't miss this chance. The car has its flaws but it is a great car with tons of equipment and functionalities and it is a great upgrade for a 19 years old Honda.

I am a newbie in diesel engine world and the automatic transmission world and I am very happy for such a great community that we have here.
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Old 23-06-2015   #15
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Re: Fiat Croma (automatic transmission, tyres)

If the oil degradation counter is not reset, after 22000 miles the DPF will not regenerate.

Very few garage workshops know this or have equipment to do it.

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