Off Topic Gm
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Off Topic Gm
it was a very short lived partnership iirc fiat pulled out as all the bits gm provided are crap
fiat bought a stake in GM and GM bought a Stake in Fiat, the deal back in the early 2000s was that GM would buy the whole of fiat in the following years (fiat at the time was struggling badly)
by the time GM were obliged to cough up the rest of the cash GM was also struggling badly as still was fiat, and relationships between the two companies broke down eventually GM were left having to buy them self out of the deal earning fiat a couple of billion dollars and GM were even more skint and the buy out meant GM had to continue buying Fiat Diesel engines.
however since about 2005 the two companies are no longer linked.
the original plan was to prevent Fiat being bought by Daimler-Chrysler however ironically since the break down of the GM-Fiat relationship, Fiat have been steadily buying up Chrysler for its self
by the time GM were obliged to cough up the rest of the cash GM was also struggling badly as still was fiat, and relationships between the two companies broke down eventually GM were left having to buy them self out of the deal earning fiat a couple of billion dollars and GM were even more skint and the buy out meant GM had to continue buying Fiat Diesel engines.
however since about 2005 the two companies are no longer linked.
the original plan was to prevent Fiat being bought by Daimler-Chrysler however ironically since the break down of the GM-Fiat relationship, Fiat have been steadily buying up Chrysler for its self
One of the benefits of the deal was the sharing of costs when it came to development of large components, such as engines. As a result FIAT developed a range of diesel engines (1.3, 1.6 & 2.0) while GM worked on the petrol engines. Not quite sure what really went wrong because all FIAT Spa. seemed to get out of the deal was the 3.2 V6 which I think may have been a Holden product. They introduced quite a large number of petrol engines themselves in that time, including the Twin Air and various versions of the Multi Air.
Perhaps where FIAT group did benefit the most was from the use of 1.3 and 2.0 litre turbodiesels in various Vauxhall/Opel products and, or so I'm told, the 1.6 turbodiesel also features in the new Suzuki SX4 (?) thingy. GM had only had two diesels in their range, the 1.6/1.7 Family 1 engine that I think originated in Japan with Isuzu and the even older 2.3 as found in the Opel Rekord.
GM had a 10% stake in FIAT which they returned in 2005 and also paid the Eyerties €1.55 Billion to get out of the deal. They also co-own with FIAT the intellectual property, effectively the engines designs, and a 6 speed gearbox. GM also have a 50% share in an engine factory in Poland which makes the 1.3MJ. It would appear that GM only have an interest in operating the plant rather than developing new engines,
Perhaps where FIAT group did benefit the most was from the use of 1.3 and 2.0 litre turbodiesels in various Vauxhall/Opel products and, or so I'm told, the 1.6 turbodiesel also features in the new Suzuki SX4 (?) thingy. GM had only had two diesels in their range, the 1.6/1.7 Family 1 engine that I think originated in Japan with Isuzu and the even older 2.3 as found in the Opel Rekord.
GM had a 10% stake in FIAT which they returned in 2005 and also paid the Eyerties €1.55 Billion to get out of the deal. They also co-own with FIAT the intellectual property, effectively the engines designs, and a 6 speed gearbox. GM also have a 50% share in an engine factory in Poland which makes the 1.3MJ. It would appear that GM only have an interest in operating the plant rather than developing new engines,
Suzuki does indeed use Fiat Diesel engines. The 1.9 in the old SX4, which also came as a Fiat, and as you say, the 120 1.6 in the new S Cross. Suzuki also uses the Fiat 1.3 Diesel in its small cars, although it has just dropped it from the Swift due to poor sales and is developing an 800cc Diesel of its own for India.
Fiat made a lot of money from the GM collaboration, mainly due to the technical arrangements re indemnities. Both companies have now gone their separate ways.
Lots of companies buy in components, the 1.5 Diesel in the new Mercedes A Class is sourced from Renault for example.
Fiat made a lot of money from the GM collaboration, mainly due to the technical arrangements re indemnities. Both companies have now gone their separate ways.
Lots of companies buy in components, the 1.5 Diesel in the new Mercedes A Class is sourced from Renault for example.
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when you look back over the last 30 odd years,
it is the engines that stand FIAT out from the run of the mill..,
Lampredi twin-cams ( Lancia)
FIRE product ( 1982 ?)
JTD - world 1st Common Rail Diesel ( apparently FIAT didn't patent it, and the world's manufacturers took the TECH to heart)
Mutli - Twin Air tech too,
Charlie
it is the engines that stand FIAT out from the run of the mill..,
Lampredi twin-cams ( Lancia)
FIRE product ( 1982 ?)
JTD - world 1st Common Rail Diesel ( apparently FIAT didn't patent it, and the world's manufacturers took the TECH to heart)
Mutli - Twin Air tech too,
Charlie
It's surprising how much collaboration there is between car manufacturers, I was surprised when I heard that Peugeot and BMW share some engines.
I realise that developing an engine costs millions but given how many billions the car industry turns over you'd think this would be peanuts, relatively speaking.
I realise that developing an engine costs millions but given how many billions the car industry turns over you'd think this would be peanuts, relatively speaking.
pretty sure you,ll find the 1956cc mjet is a straight development of the 1910 mjet,very little to do with gm and ironicaly the only input gm had on the 1.3mjet was the adoption of the timing chain which is the part that fails on a regular basis.One huge cock up getting mixed up with gm and giving them fiat technology.Only good thing was the Croma floor pan.I always wounderd why they never used a 159 floor pan.
Beats me why they've bought Chrysler, an appalling range of cars. Yanks do not, and never will, build to European quality standards. O.K. maybe Eastern European standards.
point taken..
however building a good range of FIAT's in Brazil,
they are probably looking at it as a foot-hold in the Northern US market.
to me it's remarkable the people who are posting on here,
looking at getting their 1970's fiats back in shape in the US..:worship:
charlie
The main problem with Fiat in previous years has been the management.Take for instance the croma,never advitised anywere.Most people never heard of one never mind seen one.My father has just replaced his C5 with a 2006 croma 1.9 mj,nothing but agro with the C5.Takes it to work,everybodys out in the car park looking at it.The remarks were "what is that","a croma what"."never heard of it"His best mate with a 320d goes for a run in it,comes back and says "were can i get one brand new,takes the pi.. out of the BMW,just look at the head room"
What were Fiat thinking about?
What were Fiat thinking about?
the person who had mine before me covered the front and back fiat badges with black and silver abarth badges and removed all the other badges from the boot, i loved the look of confusion on peoples faces so much i covered the wheel badges too:devil:
It's the same with the Bravo, everyone just assumes it's a fat Punto but quite a decent car.
tarquin1867
Member
As far as I know The HDI technology was developed & patented by Fiat & Bosch for use in lorries. All the other manufacturers have to pay to use it
Fiat developed the common rail in the early 90,s.For what ever reason-probably strapped for cash sold the design to Robert bosch.Its like VW,s now defunct PD system,better known as unit injectors.Everyone praises it but it wasnt their invention,Detroit diesel and Cummins pioneered the system back in the 1940,s nothing to do with the Germans.
It was always the floorpan that cost the big bucks. (One of) the first big floorpan sharing schemes was the Saab 9000/Croma/Alfa 164/Lancia Thema of the '80s, perhaps the main difference between that and current engine sharing is that they all had different engines. The 9000 an in-line 16V Four, Croma an in line 8V twin cam Four, 164 a Twin Spark 8V Four as well as a 3-Litre V6 and the Thema in line Fours and a 2.8 litre V6. The odd one out here is the Thema's V6 which was actually a version of the PRV engine used in the Volvo S80 and Peugeot 604.
I would think that FIAT bought Chrysler for the dealer network in order to re-launch Alfa over there, plus access to Jeep 4X4 technology, especially if you bear in mind that European Chryslers are made in Austria. If FIAT want to compete in the SUV market in Europe as Vauxhall/Opel (and virtually everybody else) have done. Despite Marchionne's assertion that Alfas will only be built in Italy, he'd have to be galactically stupid to not use Chrysler manufacturing facilities because of import tarrifs. That is why the likes of the BMW Z3 & Z4 as well as the Mercedes ML were built there.
HDI is Peugeot-Citroen nomenclature. The FIAT Croma was the first production car to be fitted with a Direct Injection diesel back in the '80s, but the problem was noise. Ford had a similar problem with the Transit as did Austin/Rover with the Maestro van. Until that Croma came out diesel cars were powered by Indirect Injection, although HGVs have used DI for donkey's years. The Cummins B-Series was (according to Wikipedia) developed by Cummins and Case tractors in the US, although there is something lurking at the back of my mind that it was actually developed in conjunction with IVECO. This is backed up by the fact that both Cummins and IVECO introduced the range at the same time and both firms offer a 3.9 litre Four and a 5.9 litre Six. I'm also pretty certain that they dissolved the "partnership" and each concern went there own separate ways. Of IVECO's diesel offerings, the small engine range up to 3 litres as well as the aforementioned 4 & 6 cylinder Tector motors are all Common Rail as is the 8.5 Cursor. The larger HGV engines are not.
There's probably something in what you say about being cash strapped, but I read an article in an Italian magazine while on holiday several years ago that stated that FIAT had invented CR but couldn't take it's development any further so enlisted Bosch to carry it on.
It gets a bit confusing these days with mass sharing of components.The Cummins-Iveco tie up really didnt happen.It was more a case of Iveco buying in Euro 3 Cummins ISBE then cleverly badging them as Tectors.Which is still happening and even Daf still use them but badge them as Paccar. Before this and probably pre 2000,Iveco were still using there own 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder which shows no resembilance to the fore runner of the ISBE,the 6BTA.In actual fact and from major experiance of both engines,Ivecos own in my opinon was a better engine.From what we,ve heard the FPT 3.0HPI is going to take place of the ISBE.
Are Alfa going to be a success again in the States? Unlikely. Would I buy a Jeep with a Fiat badge? No. Nor a Dodge Journey. Shoddy cars made by idiots who can't speak English properly.
