buster said:

It gets a bit confusing these days with mass sharing of components.The Cummins-Iveco tie up really didnt happen.It was more a case of Iveco buying in Euro 3 Cummins ISBE then cleverly badging them as Tectors.Which is still happening and even Daf still use them but badge them as Paccar. Before this and probably pre 2000,Iveco were still using there own 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder which shows no resembilance to the fore runner of the ISBE,the 6BTA.In actual fact and from major experiance of both engines,Ivecos own in my opinon was a better engine.From what we,ve heard the FPT 3.0HPI is going to take place of the ISBE.

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I'll have to take your word re: the B-Series development, but although Daf call it a Paccar product in their literature, when I used to drive wagons, about 20-25 years ago, our Leyland Roadrunners, later Daf 45s were known as having the 6BT and not a Leyland engine. We also had early Eurocargos and at first I thougth the IVECO had by far the better engine and 'box, but the revised Daf 45 showed us we were wrong when they got decent floor and gearlever seals. It also helped that the windscreen didn't leak and the seats were finally seats rather than deck chairs. The fact that they switched from whatever (Turner?) make they used before and fitted a ZF unit instead only added to a superior drive.

Going from memory, I think the valve cover was different on the IVECO and the oil filler was in a different place, the IVECO filling from the top through the valve cover and the Cummins from the rear straight down into the sump which seems unnecessary on something that would only be seen by mechanics.

Comas have been mentioned, so here's my bit. The greatest failing was the terrible relationship between the handbrake and the driver. If Fiat had noticed that in the development stage....

But, the revised version of the last Croma, which never came here, was a very handsome car indeed. It was another 'very nearly' Fiat, like the Bravo with its carelessly engineered lack of clutch foot room ( ditto Giulietta of course).

So often Fiat fails because of poorly engineered ergonomics, it's a great shame.

Yeah thats right and those Iveco brakes-air over hydraulic.Ive never known brake calipres to sieze up so quick.Good box that Turner box was.Whip it out on the four studs and leave the flywheel housing behind.could do a clutch in about an hour,mind you i was 18 back then.LOL
The thing with the Croma is we all moan about them but really there are no major bad points about them.Take a look on other forums and sometimes the reading is unbelievable.

About 1997 IVECO started to develop a new family of engines. F1 for the Daily range, Tector for the Eurocargo range and F3 for the Heavy range. The first engine to go into production was the F3 or Cursor as a 8.5 ltr common rail built in France. The next was the Tector which is built in Turin and was a joint venture with Cummins who wanted a small range of engines. This engine has unit injectors. The F1,again common rail, built in Turin went into the next Daily that was updated. Yes the common rail injection system was a Fiat design that they never patented correctly. The manufacture and full development was done with Bosch as they supplied fuel systems to Fiat. Fiat owned Magnetti Morelli but they had stopped with fuel systems. I remember driving a test car, an Alfa 159 that a friend of mine who worked for Bosch was using and I remember it having petrol engine performance. Unheard of at the time. I was in the Engine Testing Dept when they started a Fiat designed V8 on common rail for the first time. We had prototype vehicles in the UK during the development of these engines and I was the engineer dashing around keeping an eye on them

I believe the key intent to spend enormous amounts of € was to get access to GM service network and, yes, thus re-enter the US market.
No matter what, I have a Jeep story to tell. There is a redneck idiot living next block from me who drives a Cherokee (complete with a Confederation flag sticker on the bumper). He never missed a chance to foul-mouth my Fiats. That is, until I told him he had an Italian diesel engine in his crate manufactured by a company dealing in agricultural machinery.
He does not answer my "Good Day" since then.

(CZ)enda said:

I believe the key intent to spend enormous amounts of € was to get access to GM service network and, yes, thus re-enter the US market.
No matter what, I have a Jeep story to tell. There is a redneck idiot living next block from me who drives a Cherokee (complete with a Confederation flag sticker on the bumper). He never missed a chance to foul-mouth my Fiats. That is, until I told him he had an Italian diesel engine in his crate manufactured by a company dealing in agricultural machinery.
He does not answer my "Good Day" since then.

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I have the greatest pleasure telling the owners of Saab that they are being pulled around in there rag top 93s by a great Fiat diesel engine!!
They are usually blond haired ladies with sun glasses on the top of there heads with imitation Gucchi bags.:slayer:

I stumbled upon a thread about Vectras elsewhere the other day while searching for info. The conclusion there was that the diesel Vectra would be a decent car if it hadn't been ruined by having an unreliable Fiat engine in it. I certainly wouldn't agree, but it shows that people have their allegiances!

A ha ha,Doofer ive read that as well.But lets not forget what they had before the jtd.The good old DTI or the amazing 3.0 v6 isuzu.A hand-granade waiting to go off if ever there was one.GM were that good they could'nt even get the instillation of the engine correct.Funny thing is all the problems concerned with a jtd installed in a gm car,the Fiat doesnt suffer with any of it.
My fav though is telling all the RR and LR owners that there 80 grand cars have got PSA HDI's fitted to them in v6 and v8 format.Now they are seriously crap.

maggers said:

Beats me why they've bought Chrysler, an appalling range of cars. Yanks do not, and never will, build to European quality standards. O.K. maybe Eastern European standards.

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Fiat bought Chrysler so they could get a foothold in the US and actually make some money at the same time thus avoiding being bought by another car maker.
The Chrysler part (including Dodge and Jeep) of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles are generating most of the profits in the group.
So I think it was a smart move. They got Chrysler for quite a bargain, because some of the payment was supplying economical engines and engine technology to Chrysler.
Now Fiat has access to all of Chrysler incl. advaced 4x4 technology from Jeep.
Fiat is making money again and they can now afford to invest in Fiat and Alfa Romeo models again.

Ugh...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...ly-as-merger-with-chrysler-ends-era-cars.html

I am just wondering what will happen to Lancia brand, which probably never sold well outside Italy. I always wanted one, but never really got to actually getting it, they are quite rare birds here.

That's my finish now, I'll never buy another fiat,
Sold out and rubbish car options sealed it for me.

(CZ)enda said:

Ugh...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...ly-as-merger-with-chrysler-ends-era-cars.html



I am just wondering what will happen to Lancia brand, which probably never sold well outside Italy. I always wanted one, but never really got to actually getting it, they are quite rare birds here.

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Have seen what the sell?

The Lancia Voyager


And the loverly Lancia therma

Yeah, but these are not Lancias, they are blasphemy.

I would love to drive e.g. Thesis, which is a real eye-catcher, but my "practical me" prevents me from buying one (I really have no use for a sedan). It is a f*****g disgrace that instead of developing, say, Thesis II, they decided to stick the famous Lancia badge on these pieces of c**p.