Doofer said:

I'm going to risk cursing myself, but I've only done one shortish journey after its new pads, fitting kits and rear calipers and the disks are... cold.

Watch this space. I don't think it's fixed, it's just playing its evil intermittent mind games with me again.

It may not have been the calipers - I'm thinking the fitting kits. I'll take some photos of the old ones tomorrow, they're not only filthy (as they would be), but they look a bit deformed. In fact they look like they've come out of a shipwreck. I'd bet they're as old as the car. Mintex recommend changing them every two years.

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Ah ye of little faith!!
Did the calipers come from the Mary Rose?

I didn't see the calipers, but the pads have rusty rings on the backs of them. They were undoubtedly knackered. I guess it's got a better chance of working if the moving parts are physically capable of moving.

Fingers crossed...

tarquin1867 said:

Hi doofer- with ref to your thoughts on grinding your discs flat.
In the good old days the solid discs were given a hardened "case" to a certain depth and could be skimmed a little , with the advent of vented discs the case hardening was stopped in favour of normalise and temper I believe . This gives a relatively even hardness across the section of the disc. If my memory serves me right the skimming up of discs is not done due to the probable warping of the disc under the heating during hard breaking.
The old type solid discs had a minimum thickness you could go down to , the modern vented have a minimum thickness they can "wear "down to.

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Just done a little delving into the manual looking for something else and noticed that there is a grinding tolerance on the discs for future reference:--
Front--1.9 8v--- New=25mm thick-- min after grind= 22.35mm
Rear-- 1.98v---New=12mm thick---min after grind10.35mm
Front--1.9 16v--New28mm thick----min after grind 26.35mm
Rear---1.9 16v --new20mm thick----min after grind18.35mm

2.2 16v same as 1.9 8v

Oh bum. Saw the black dust on the front right wheel today, after I meticulously cleaned them all last weekend. Did the "dab fingers on disks after a long drive without braking" test.

Test results: Front right and back left: hot. front left and back right: cold.

So, other than any scary ABS-related expensive-sounding problems, the only thing that isn't new is the master cylinder. So that will have to be the next thing to get changed. Got my photos of the thing, will now see if it's a Vectra part. The header tank does have a GM logo on it, so perhaps at least it won't be silly Fiat parts prices.

I've changed my pads last week also, but I've only had 200 miles and can't really say if it sticks or not. Even tho I check the wheels every time, for now it seems to be okay, but I'm pretty sure it's not. Changing the master cylinder is expensive, I'd rather change the pads more often. Sure, if the problem gets worse we would have to change the master cylinder, but for now its ok. I'm sure most of the Croma's have this problem but, not all the drivers/owners check the wheels

Doofer - if I read the system diagrams right I suspect that the master cylinder may not be where the "dual brakes" are controlled from. The Electro-hydraulic unit which sits after the M/C and governs the distribution of the pressure as required would be the thing that I would check on first.The individual solenoid valves are incorporated in the unit.

Thanks for the info - interesting. What diagram are you referring to - eLearn or something else? I'll have to get my thinking cap on then - I assumed the master cylinder was the only thing between the pedal and the brake pipes.

The diagram is on E-Learn and in my big book, both the same.
Just popped out to my car and found the valve and it is directly behind the battery. Attached to the nearside suspension in a solid looking bracket.

Had the car through the car wash this morning and when I was looking at it I noticed that there was a bit of moisture around the top of the electric plug which just happens to be on the top and near the passenger side scuttle just under the bonnet. Think a check of the state of the connection pins should be a first move, corrosion on the pins could be the problem?
I would have thought that a fault on this valve would put on the ABS warning light but with bad connections on this car its no given!!. Think of the steering pump connection!!:yuck:.
"Always check the little things first" I do every time I look down!!

Thanks very much for the help. That actually sounds like something I can do too, for once. I don't touch fluid and calipers etc. Too much knowledge and special tools required.

If that's the answer then I'll be very happy. I've noticed before that the fit between the windscreen and the seal on the plastic trim below it has a gap, and I can't get it to close. The windscreen has been replaced twice though, and that trim's been pulled off loads of times. I know you have to gently guide the pointy bit into the clippy channel thing below, start from one end and work along, whacking it down. It's clipped on properly, but the seal just doesn't meet the glass. When I wash the car I see the water merrily pouring behind it.

tarquin1867 said:

"Always check the little things first" I do every time I look down!!

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Ha, I know it's not a contest, but don't worry, you're not alone

What's Vento's problem?! He just goes round "disliking" peoples' posts, seemingly randomly - his profile's full of it.

Vento - care to speak your mind? Don't be shy.

Doofer said:

What's Vento's problem?! He just goes round "disliking" peoples' posts, seemingly randomly - his profile's full of it.

Vento - care to speak your mind? Don't be shy.

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Maybe Vento doesn't like merry water ?

In any event it's not the kind of thing we do round here without good reason.

Doofer said:

What's Vento's problem?! He just goes round "disliking" peoples' posts, seemingly randomly - his profile's full of it.

Vento - care to speak your mind? Don't be shy.

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Dear Doofer thank you very much for drawing my attention.
After you adressed me I had to find out what was going on and how it happened
I tell you the reason from my "dislikings".
I've got a new I pad and by scrolling with my richt hand I pushed several times the button dislike, and may be others as wel.
I am very sorry for this stupid faults. I never had the intention to send this messages.
Is there a possibility to correct this?
Can I find out who I "disliked" in the past and delete this "dislikes".
Kind regards
Vento

Absolutely bloody brilliant - I genuinely LOLed!

You might want to ask a moderator to remove all your previous hatred of everyone on here! You should be able to find one and send them a PM.

Sometimes there's a perfectly stupid explanation for things.

Doofer said:

Absolutely bloody brilliant - I genuinely LOLed!

You might want to ask a moderator to remove all your previous hatred of everyone on here! You should be able to find one and send them a PM.

Sometimes there's a perfectly stupid explanation for things.

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I have sent a request to the helpdesk if they are able to remove, the by mistake created items.

Vento said:

I have sent a request to the helpdesk if they are able to remove, the by mistake created items.

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This is what Ben answered: "Once you’ve clicked dislike, you can simply click it again, and it would remove it" I am in search now for "dislikes"
Regards Vento

Click on your own name on the left of this thread, click the "Post Thanks/Like" tab, then see your 7 dislikes!

Perhaps using a mouse and proper computer instead of a toy!

The brakes are still rubbing after cleaning all the contacts in the ABS brake unit thing. Still the same diagonal pair.

I'm going to have a really good study on ABS and eLearn. My limited understanding at the moment:

There's only one brake pedal, not two.
At some point the pressure is divided into two (master cylinder?)
The ABS/ESP unit also interacts with the brakes, but I believe it has the ability to brake/unbrake an individual wheel, not just a diagonal pair. Therefore I suspect (hope) that the fact that it's a pair points away from the ABS unit.

Lots of learning needed. All knowledge welcome though - I'm sure we can crack this one.

I was looking longingly at a Skoda Yeti on the road today, dreaming about chucking my Fiat keys at a Skoda dealer. Sadly that would involve too many digits of money - probably a Croma + £20k, so I'll stick with trying to make the thing work properly.

There's only master cylinder. After the master cylinder, there's the ABS pump. ESP is just a software which uses the ABS and some other sensors. The wheel brakes are independent,it is possible that you may have a problem with two valves on the ABS unit or something else, but this is only an assumption. For example I had problems only with the front left wheel, but they seem to be gone after I changed the brake pads and used some ceramic grease on the fixing kits, or it may be only a temporary thing, as I'm 100% sure that fixing kits are not the problem here. It has to be a stronger and more important element, or just an important one like the ESP software. On the rear side should be also a brake/wight distributor, but I'm not sure. I will take a closer look at it in the eLearn also and reply after.

BTW, how it's your steering, I mean, is it aligned properly ?

I'm asking because of the next scenario...

What if your steering wheel is not aligned and the ESP thinks that is something wrong and he always try to correct your direction with the brakes ?! I'm thinking that ESP also uses the sensor from the steering wheel column, if not, then this is only a silly assumption, but what if ?! I'll dig more hoping to find some more info.

I've never noticed any pull to either side - it all seems to be aligned fine. I see your point though - I wonder if there's a situation in which the ABS/ESP uses the two diagonals to correct it? I'd expect to see the flashing light on the dash though, like if you ever spin the wheels so it gets involved.

I'm currently sorting out my house windows, after the bloody stupid neighbour sprayed creosote all over the side of our house at the weekend. I'll get back to the car after that, then perhaps I might do a bit of earning a living of nothing else is going to get in the way