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Old 06-07-2013   #16
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Re: Driveshafted

Bloody amazingly brilliant, thanks. That gives us a few bullets to fire at the recon company - I have in mind that we should ask them how many ml of what grease they used - I'd bet it was a finger-ful of "the usual stuff".

It may be that the (very helpful) mechanic at the garage can empty/clean it and refill with the correct amount of the right stuff. I don't know how practical this would be though.

I'm still expecting to have to buy a new driveshaft though. I'll update the thread with progress - I doubt I'll be the last with driveshaft issues.
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Old 06-07-2013   #17
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Re: Driveshafted

Glad to be of assistance.
You can see from the photos that the outer shaft is thicker in the middle, I was told by the dealers where I bought my shaft that they have to be careful when ordering as there are different lengths and diam`s across the Fiat /Alfa range and they "often get sent a wrong one by mistake!!!" so it is not unknown to dealers then it can also happen to the recon men as well.
The parts are so well engineered that , in my opinion they are a disaster waiting to happen, the three bearings are ball races and in engineering terms a roller race would have been preferable as the forces are all pressure rather than rotary.
Another small bit of info is that my indi guy used a type of hypodermic to measure/fill the joint it had measuring grids on the side, he normally uses it to fill gearboxes etc with oil , used it with the tube on the end left off
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Old 06-07-2013   #18
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Re: Driveshafted

...and is yours now as smooth as silk?

Can you just clarify on your tale of driveshaft woe - did you get a replacement or a recon? Was the grease refill done on the new one or your old one?

I'm still finding it hard to believe that a few mls of grease can make such a difference. But that spec is very exact - there isn't even a range of values.

I'm wondering if it's like my washing machine. If it's full it spins fine. If it's half-full then all the washing ends up on one half of the drum, and the shake sensor decides it's too unbalanced to spin and gives up on the idea. In fact my Croma feels very much like an unbalanced washing machine - it's the same kind of effect. Perhaps it needs the grease to fill it so it's balanced, not sit in a lump on one side? This is probably way too simple a theory though.
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Old 07-07-2013   #19
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Re: Driveshafted

No amount of greese imbalance in volume/weight is going to throw a drive shaft out of balance. The mass of the drive shaft to just too high compared to the greese and diameter/radius and thus centrufugal forces are just too low.

However greese in the joint will have a dampenning effect as well as a lubrication effect.

What puzzles me about the tulip / spider joints is why are they being used? For many years the existing Fiat inner CV joints used on all previous large engine Fiats have proved to be utterly reliable. They are made with large ball bearings etc. and have an almost zero failure history.

I tend to get the impression that the GM gearbox and suspension system is just too week and floppy and lateral drive shaft movement so high during cornering etc. that having 3+ inch long tulip tunnels in which the spider can travel up and down was the only way they could get the system to hang together !
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Old 07-07-2013   #20
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Re: Driveshafted

Hello Doofer- Mine was new from Mangolettsi in Cheshire.
1)- Changed with new cv grease unmeasured-- still some waggle @ 40 turning right handed , (worse turning uphill to the right) but nowhere near the same , only really noticed it because I was looking for it.
2)- Found out about the quantity spec- cleaned out the tulip/gaiter ,repacked with correct amount of CV grease, Indi and me went .
3)- Absolutely no wobbly @40 on "normal " driving and only the very slightest on the 40mph turning RH uphill.

My indi has a theory that as I could only afford to change the outer shaft there may be a slight amount of wear around the open end of the"tulip" which would alter the fit/ clearance between the two parts but only when the joint is at its most extended ie going round a corner.
As has been described in other threads it only occurs when accelerating,not when you take your foot of and coast.
Most of the cars have been reasonably high mileage but mine started at 32000 and as it only has 40000 on now I count myself unlucky.
The difference between the correct amount of grease and too little was amazing and I would recommend anybody to get the joint repacked properly before going for a refurb or new shaft it could save wads of cash!!
As a clincher Vauxhall now do a check on the joint as part of the the service schedule at most garages which can include repacking the joint if there is evidence of grease leakage.
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Old 07-07-2013   #21
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Re: Driveshafted

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
No amount of greese imbalance in volume/weight is going to throw a drive shaft out of balance. The mass of the drive shaft to just too high compared to the greese and diameter/radius and thus centrufugal forces are just too low.

However greese in the joint will have a dampenning effect as well as a lubrication effect.

What puzzles me about the tulip / spider joints is why are they being used? For many years the existing Fiat inner CV joints used on all previous large engine Fiats have proved to be utterly reliable. They are made with large ball bearings etc. and have an almost zero failure history.

I tend to get the impression that the GM gearbox and suspension system is just too week and floppy and lateral drive shaft movement so high during cornering etc. that having 3+ inch long tulip tunnels in which the spider can travel up and down was the only way they could get the system to hang together !
Totally agree about the engineering and the comment on GM suspension. With the roads round here its heart in the mouth time for the nearside front spring as i have already had the OS one broken @ 28000
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Old 08-07-2013   #22
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Re: Driveshafted

I don't know if you've seen this - I actually found it by coincidence when I was looking for something else.

http://www.onlineautomotive.co.uk/FI...%20Shafts.aspx
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Old 31-07-2013   #23
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Re: Driveshafted

Any news yet Doofer on your fight with the "darkside" regarding your recon- shaft?
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Old 31-07-2013   #24
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Re: Driveshafted

I'm just awaiting parts - I've got the Tutela MRM Zero grease sitting here. I'm going to ask the garage to check both sides for play and, if they're OK, clean out both and put in the measured quantity of what Fiat say it should have.

This will be tackled at the same time as the sticking brakes (discussed on another thread). I'm currently awaiting the brake pad fitting kits - I have the pads themselves.

So it will probably be next week before I can report anything. I'll update both threads as I know more.
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Old 31-07-2013   #25
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Re: Driveshafted

Doofer .... we must me sometime to compare Cromas.

You show me yours and I'll show you mine ....

Nick (just down the road from you ... Hedge End)
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Old 01-08-2013   #26
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Re: Driveshafted

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
Doofer .... we must me sometime to compare Cromas.

You show me yours and I'll show you mine ....

Nick (just down the road from you ... Hedge End)
Did I see you once on the M27 a year or two ago somewhere around Hedge End - did we have a bit of an overtaking each other thing?! I tried to wave, but I was trying not to die too - I know from experience that if I turn left I steer left!
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Old 01-08-2013   #27
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Re: Driveshafted

Most probably was me.....long time ago and my memory fades fast these days....its an age related thing.
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Old 01-08-2013   #28
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Re: Driveshafted

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
Most probably was me.....long time ago and my memory fades fast these days....its an age related thing.
OHHH YESSS- i`m age hath no fury like having to have a shopping list for bread &milk.
Just waiting till I type wibble instead of wobble
















There you go you see a prophecy fulfilled already!! Now wheres the nurse gone with mi buppy
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Old 01-08-2013   #29
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Re: Driveshafted

I'm very surprised that old codgers are driving Cromas - don't you feel out of place in something so stylish and sporty?

As for me - I'm young, handsome and cool. I drive a Croma as it has the good looks I need to complement mine.

Nothing at all to do with the fact that I can get loads of stuff in the back and don't have to bend my aching back to get in it.
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Old 02-08-2013   #30
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Re: Driveshafted

Quote Originally Posted by Doofer View Post
I'm very surprised that old codgers are driving Cromas - don't you feel out of place in something so stylish and sporty?

As for me - I'm young, handsome and cool. I drive a Croma as it has the good looks I need to complement mine.

Nothing at all to do with the fact that I can get loads of stuff in the back and don't have to bend my aching back to get in it.
When you get to my age comfort before style every time.
I take comfort in knowing that the hidden ability to be smartly away at the lights has stood me in good stead with the boomboxeratti who rock up in dropped Corsas!!

I like to take the "piscatorials " as often as possible and prove over and over again how much tackle I can pile into the Croma and still find room for the dog
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