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Old 08-08-2014   #91
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

Many thanks BrianMcL and Buster for your comments. We are so far down the line that we felt we should stick with Bosch Service for dealing with this problem. So yesterday (Thurs) garage called and collected Croma promising it would be returned end of day. About 8.40pm mechanic (who had left us his own Multipla to use) returned claiming all was resolved. It was too late to ask questions but we would give it a go Friday.
Today, we drove about 40km over hill and dale to the coast and back. Good news is that the problem does seem resolved. Hooray!
We will ask for an in-depth explanation of what has been done and at what cost after the 11th August as the garage has now closed. (This is Italy!) So watch this space for an update.
Meanwhile does anyone use the on board computer for average fuel consumption readings? Ours since this EGR problem seems stuck on 13.2 to 13.5 l/km. Previous use shows it would regularly change every minute or so. The IC one still alters every second as it should.
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Old 08-08-2014   #92
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

The average consumption will be ~ the same if you are doing about the same over a run. The instant is what it says --instant--.
As I`ve said in another thread the maths behind the averages are questionable on all cars. God only knows what parameters are used on the car for it to decide on the readings but whoever set this up was having a laugh .
Best of luck with your journey.
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Old 11-09-2014   #93
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

So, disconnecting MAF completely got rid of my stuttering/whooshing sound errors. However, now the car has less power and turbo makes a lot more distinguishable sound. So what I am asking:

Does MAF readings affect on operating some valves/hoses? So is it possible that my problem lies in somewhere else than MAF, although disconnecting MAF made the car be a lot more stable when driving uphill. Does disconnecting MAF open some valve (that could be the issue in the first place) and put all the turbocharge straight out (something causes the louder noises).

I tried to clean the MAF but it had no effect. The MAF seems clean but it's driven a LOT.

I previously cleaned MAP and it had zero effect. Same with installing a plate with three holes to EGR. I still haven't tried with a plate without any holes.
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Old 11-09-2014   #94
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

Late update: Croma working perfectly now. Asked garage for explanation of what it was they did. Regrettably the reply was not very helpful. "We cleaned the complete system, and it wasn't easy". That was it. What they meant by the complete system we don't know, except that there is no stuttering and no odd noises. It pulls like a train and fuel economy around town is around 6.8lts per 100km.
Perhaps the turbo makes a bit more whistling sound than before, but nothing more than that. The car has just had a 140,000km annual service and all was well. Other than the 300+ bill in the first place including a reconditioned EGR they haven't asked for any thing more, even though the reconditioned EGR was replaced with a new one. Time will tell. Going OK now.
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Old 12-09-2014   #95
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

Thanks for the reply. Interesting that they got it working basically without replacing anything. Maybe my MAF and MAP are also ok.
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Old 12-09-2014   #96
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

The maf controls egr opening times. It also lets the edc control unit know when the egr is open because less air will pass through the maf as most will be feed from the now open egr(exhaust gas)
One thing that has always struck me about these egr or engine faults is that at one point all must have been well.Nothing has changed mechanically,so they must be fixable.
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Old 14-09-2014   #97
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

I plugged the MAF back in and made a fully closed gasket for the EGR inlet port. Now the car runs like new. So since the MAF controls EGR opening we can conclude that the problem happens when EGR is open.

1fiatfan changed MAF, MAP, EGR and cleaned everything. And his problem stayed. 2bakedbeans was able to fix the problem just by cleaning everything.

Now since cleaning is just a temporary solution (and might not work everytime) and EGR is in the TOP 5 of the stupidest investions of mankinds history, my next step is to try to cheat the engine to think that the EGR works like normal even when it actually never opens.

I hired a guy to change the software to make the EGR stay closed but he was only able to make it so, that it never opens the EGR more than 4%. Anything beyound that and I got "Check engine" error. And the 4% doesn't help at all. It needs to be completely closed.

Because it seems that it's impossible (or at least very hard) to do via software, I'll try to figure out a way to do it to the hardware. Will report if successfull.
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Last edited by tappis; 14-09-2014 at 13:47.
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Old 15-09-2014   #98
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

Yet some tuners reckon they can turn it of completely.The simplist way would be to do away with the swirl flaps in the inlet manifold and leave the egr completely blanked,that way when coasting downhill,when the egr opens as it does the maf will still see air flow past it as though the egr was open even though its blanked.It may just be a matter of drill holes in the swirl flaps and not remove them or even leave them partially open.Thinking about it swirl flaps is one issue weve never talked about regarding egr issues.hmmmmmm
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Old 16-09-2014   #99
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

I have no idea what these swirl flaps are. Are they easily accessible?

So I think EGR has it's own sensor in it that detects air flow? But if the egr inlet is completely blocked (so that exhaust does not reach EGR) how would there be an air flow after it?

Loving the power of the engine atm. Didn't even remember how much it has it. Sometimes it makes this dying whale sound though, but it has no effect on the behaviour of the engine.

Edit: Read about swirl flaps. Seems that they are also stupid ****. So I guess I'll try to find someone to install these for me: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWIRL-FLAPS-...item19eeb0d7fd
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Last edited by tappis; 16-09-2014 at 07:34. Reason: Added information
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Old 16-09-2014   #100
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

No the egr doesnt have a flow sensor,the checksum is worked out of the maf.One thing i find strange about yours is that it doesnt throw a wobbler with the egr blanked.
Think of it like this.
On the inlet manifold there is a throttle valve,a flap in laymans terms.After this is the swirl flaps.
When coasting downhill the throttle valve is shut because your foot is off the throttle or coasting and not requiring real effort or power.
At this point egr is open.So throttle valve shut,egr open.It knows because once the throttle valve is shut there is a mass reduction in air passing the maf,and thus opens the egr if it makes sense.
In reality there is no need for a maf,it could and is worked out from engine load and boost conditions.
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Old 02-10-2014   #101
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

Update: Removing swirl flaps did not help with the EGR error code. It is still there. And the job was enormous. But got the timing belt changed at the same time. Timing belt had to be removed anyway to get access to the swirl flaps.
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Old 02-10-2014   #102
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

For your issues I would not expect the swirl valves to be in anyway related to your problem so I'm not surprised their removal (were they removed or just made inoperative?).

Swirl valves are there to increase air flow velocity into the combustion chamber and thus help improve the diesel fuel and air mix before compression detonation takes place.

Yes the swirl flaps operate around 1800rpm but so does the EGR valve.
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Old 05-10-2014   #103
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

They were (mostly) removed. I didn't see how they did it in the garage but some parts had to be left in place. One of the flaps had it's mechanism working very poorly.

Any idea what to try next to get rid of the EGR fault code? Tampering with ECU is out of the question so some way to fool the sensor (MAF?)
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Last edited by tappis; 05-10-2014 at 09:49.
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Old 01-08-2015   #104
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

Hello,
I've been reading alot about EGR, MAF sensor, DPF and stuff related to the common problems our Cromas have. I've recently found out about the so called "swirl flaps" and I went to my car to check if they are operating normally. I was very surprised when I found out that I DONT HAVE swirl flaps at all. Another thing I've noticed is that most of the inlet manifolds of 1.9 multijet autos are aluminium, but mine appeared to be ... kind of plastic. So is there a 1.9 mjet with no swirlf flaps ? My croma is 1.9 multijet automatic gearbox late 2006.
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Old 29-03-2016   #105
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Re: 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

The plastic intake manifold has the swirl flaps on the lower side, impossible to see from the top.
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