I have just read through all the posts on this subject with great interest as a very similar condition has affected our Croma 1.9 16v (2008 facelift version) as it was bought and used in Italy. About a week ago when driving up fairly steep hills the car suddenly juddered and then a sort of flapping noise started. There were no warning lights and it seemed to recover itself. After returning down hill the car started to lose power and had to resort to 3rd or even 2nd gear on a dual carriageway but just made it home.

Intended to drive it to garage but could not get it move up the slight incline and it kept stalling. Garage had to bring recovery truck. We suspected it might be the EGR as it had caused a previous problem around 80,000km. The car has now done 139,000. Our Multiservice Bosch service centre said it was the EGR and fitted a FIAT reconditioned unit plus gaskets etc. Total cost inc recovery was €335! We collected it 2 days later but soon found the stutter/hesitation still there especially at low revs and happened more so on inclines. Took the car back next day to explain problem still there. We would use the car and give a good blast along the autostrada etc. No problems with acceleration even up to 130km, but coming home to incline big juddering happened again. Telephoned garage. They would order a new EGR and to take it in today for fitting. So (if anyone is still awake) had new EGR fitted today. Chief mechanic went for spin and returned unhappy. Problem still there. Croma was replugged into computer – all OK. I watched the screen and could see the results. DPF is fine too. He fiddled about then took it for another spin with a colleague. Came back and said it seemed OK. Take it away and see how we go. Well, less than 2kms away, the hesitation returned but also now with the whooshing noise too! Tired and frustrated we returned home and will return to them later this week. After reading comments here about the faulty EGR batch and the special gasket news was interesting to hear. I'll keep posting updates as and when they occur. Naturally Italy being the home of FIAT and thousands more Croma's on the road here you would imagine it would be easily diagnosed. Hope its fixed soon as we drive to UK in September so it must be reliable...

The woosh sound could possible indicate a loss of boost pressure via either a split or loose hose connection OR the waste gate valve blowing off under pressure/load.

I would also check the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor and clean it. They get completely clogged up with exhaust soot and oil vapour mix. Cleaning this sensor (which is dead easy to do) makes a world of difference and has cured many a Croma performance/power issues.

Thanks S130 for suggestions. Croma returned to garage this morning for an indepth examination. I've tried to help chief mechanic by giving them information found on the net regarding this problem including info from Italian auto forums. However, typically Italian they have their own ways of doing things and don't take too kindly to be told ever so politely what to do, so we wait for a result. meantime they have provided a Punto courtesy car which is one of Fiats 'Natural power' range running on LPG. Don't know what engine it has but it sure lacks oomph going up hills. Come back Croma all is forgiven!
More soon.

I doubt it's the EGR, or at least just the EGR, but the best way to check is just to blank it off completely.

Yes it will throw the check engine warning on and yes you won't know if anything else is going wrong as well but if the car is suddenly as good as / even better than new then it's almost certainly an EGR problem.

You can then get a new EGR and remove the blanking plate. After a few stop start cycles the check engine warning message will clear.

But unplug the airflow sensor first as that takes seconds and might also be a problem.

At the front of the engine is a hose which comes out a port labelled vac out. Check that it hasn't perished. Mine has but some black tape and it's as good as new.

Thanks for all the comments. Well Croma was in the garage for two and a half days, getting a call today (Saturday) saying it was ready. Took courtesy car back and had chat with Chief mechanic. Unfortunately despite trying to slow his explanation down we are still not quite sure what the problem was except that it was crud blocking the whole system. However, the new EGR stays. He even showed a photo off his phone. Now we are to drive it away and use for a week or so and report back. Touch wood, all seems OK on 6km journey home.
Lord knows what it will cost but should just extend to man hours as no other part was apparently replaced. I'll post another comment later, but at least our Croma will be OK (and do it a power of good) in traveling to UK in September which is about 1000miles to Calais. All that Autostrada/Bahn/route will help clean the DPF too.

Well, after a good run Monday with no hesitation, stuttering etc problem appears fixed. Unfortunately after filling with diesel the amber 'Check engine' warning light appeared. However, all seemed OK with car so drove it home with no problem. Warning light kept coming back on though so took it back to garage this morning. They eventually could take a look and run tests, but as usual they are not very talkative but it was fixed. Light does not now come on. We were told that (and showed) the EGR gasket was the problem and that it may need the EGR blanking off and the ECU software modified. Something we had previously mentioned. Lost in translation, we do not know for sure what is actually fitted now, suffice to say that some minor hesitation was felt after leaving garage. Almost back to square one. Being Italy, they take their holidays next week for a week and the garage will be closed. Could be a problem, but they have offered a courtesy car if we need it. (yes). Will be in contact with them tomorrow. It is just becoming so tedious, wasting our time and costing lord knows what now – all because of some stupid EU directive.
Anyway photo attached of sad Croma in garage...
To be continued!

Sounds like a complete nightmare!

I'd definitely blank the egr completely and see if it drives fine then. The check engine light will come on but don't worry about that at the moment. You can make a temporary test one yourself from a small piece of decent quality metal (I used a piece of exhaust bandage) with holes drilled for the bolts that hold it in place.

To make one you will need 1 small piece of metal, something to cut the metal into the correct shape, a drill or something to make the mounting holes, a T35 bit and ratchet to remove and refit the mounting bolts and about 40 minutes to do the job.

But unplug the airflow sensor first and try driving the car with it unplugged and see if that cures it.

My view is nothing should have to be blanked off to fix the fault.Weather right or wrong,surely at some point in the vehicles life,probably when new it ran perfect with an unblanked egr.Something has changed regarding the EDC.The problem with blanking the egr off is it completely upsets the value the maf see,s.It is actually the maf that controls egr opening times.

Hi Buster, whilst I wouldn't disagree with you in theory, in practice mine wasn't right when it left the factory and the engine didn't start running properly until after the egr change and swirl mod gasket was fitted.

Also, when trying to troubleshoot something sometimes you have to do things that you wouldn't do normally. I'm not suggesting that 2bakedbeans unplugs the maf and blanks the egr permanently, just that we try that just now to identify the problem/problems so that they can be fixed properly.

If I hadn't worked through my egr problem the way I'm suggesting here my Croma would have most likely have been scrapped 4 years ago as the main dealer simply couldn't fix it.

Many thanks BrianMcL and Buster for your comments. We are so far down the line that we felt we should stick with Bosch Service for dealing with this problem. So yesterday (Thurs) garage called and collected Croma promising it would be returned end of day. About 8.40pm mechanic (who had left us his own Multipla to use) returned claiming all was resolved. It was too late to ask questions but we would give it a go Friday.
Today, we drove about 40km over hill and dale to the coast and back. Good news is that the problem does seem resolved. Hooray!
We will ask for an in-depth explanation of what has been done and at what cost after the 11th August as the garage has now closed. (This is Italy!) So watch this space for an update.
Meanwhile does anyone use the on board computer for average fuel consumption readings? Ours since this EGR problem seems stuck on 13.2 to 13.5 l/km. Previous use shows it would regularly change every minute or so. The IC one still alters every second as it should.

The average consumption will be ~ the same if you are doing about the same over a run. The instant is what it says --instant--.
As I`ve said in another thread the maths behind the averages are questionable on all cars. God only knows what parameters are used on the car for it to decide on the readings but whoever set this up was having a laugh .
Best of luck with your journey.

So, disconnecting MAF completely got rid of my stuttering/whooshing sound errors. However, now the car has less power and turbo makes a lot more distinguishable sound. So what I am asking:

Does MAF readings affect on operating some valves/hoses? So is it possible that my problem lies in somewhere else than MAF, although disconnecting MAF made the car be a lot more stable when driving uphill. Does disconnecting MAF open some valve (that could be the issue in the first place) and put all the turbocharge straight out (something causes the louder noises).

I tried to clean the MAF but it had no effect. The MAF seems clean but it's driven a LOT.

I previously cleaned MAP and it had zero effect. Same with installing a plate with three holes to EGR. I still haven't tried with a plate without any holes.

Late update: Croma working perfectly now. Asked garage for explanation of what it was they did. Regrettably the reply was not very helpful. "We cleaned the complete system, and it wasn't easy". That was it. What they meant by the complete system we don't know, except that there is no stuttering and no odd noises. It pulls like a train and fuel economy around town is around 6.8lts per 100km.
Perhaps the turbo makes a bit more whistling sound than before, but nothing more than that. The car has just had a 140,000km annual service and all was well. Other than the €300+ bill in the first place including a reconditioned EGR they haven't asked for any thing more, even though the reconditioned EGR was replaced with a new one. Time will tell. Going OK now.

Thanks for the reply. Interesting that they got it working basically without replacing anything. Maybe my MAF and MAP are also ok.

The maf controls egr opening times. It also lets the edc control unit know when the egr is open because less air will pass through the maf as most will be feed from the now open egr(exhaust gas)
One thing that has always struck me about these egr or engine faults is that at one point all must have been well.Nothing has changed mechanically,so they must be fixable.

I plugged the MAF back in and made a fully closed gasket for the EGR inlet port. Now the car runs like new. So since the MAF controls EGR opening we can conclude that the problem happens when EGR is open.

1fiatfan changed MAF, MAP, EGR and cleaned everything. And his problem stayed. 2bakedbeans was able to fix the problem just by cleaning everything.

Now since cleaning is just a temporary solution (and might not work everytime) and EGR is in the TOP 5 of the stupidest investions of mankinds history, my next step is to try to cheat the engine to think that the EGR works like normal even when it actually never opens.

I hired a guy to change the software to make the EGR stay closed but he was only able to make it so, that it never opens the EGR more than 4%. Anything beyound that and I got "Check engine" error. And the 4% doesn't help at all. It needs to be completely closed.

Because it seems that it's impossible (or at least very hard) to do via software, I'll try to figure out a way to do it to the hardware. Will report if successfull.

Yet some tuners reckon they can turn it of completely.The simplist way would be to do away with the swirl flaps in the inlet manifold and leave the egr completely blanked,that way when coasting downhill,when the egr opens as it does the maf will still see air flow past it as though the egr was open even though its blanked.It may just be a matter of drill holes in the swirl flaps and not remove them or even leave them partially open.Thinking about it swirl flaps is one issue weve never talked about regarding egr issues.hmmmmmm

I have no idea what these swirl flaps are. Are they easily accessible?

So I think EGR has it's own sensor in it that detects air flow? But if the egr inlet is completely blocked (so that exhaust does not reach EGR) how would there be an air flow after it?

Loving the power of the engine atm. Didn't even remember how much it has it. Sometimes it makes this dying whale sound though, but it has no effect on the behaviour of the engine.

Edit: Read about swirl flaps. Seems that they are also stupid ****. So I guess I'll try to find someone to install these for me: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWIRL-FLAPS...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19eeb0d7fd

No the egr doesnt have a flow sensor,the checksum is worked out of the maf.One thing i find strange about yours is that it doesnt throw a wobbler with the egr blanked.
Think of it like this.
On the inlet manifold there is a throttle valve,a flap in laymans terms.After this is the swirl flaps.
When coasting downhill the throttle valve is shut because your foot is off the throttle or coasting and not requiring real effort or power.
At this point egr is open.So throttle valve shut,egr open.It knows because once the throttle valve is shut there is a mass reduction in air passing the maf,and thus opens the egr if it makes sense.
In reality there is no need for a maf,it could and is worked out from engine load and boost conditions.