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Old 16-04-2013   #46
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
That's a lot of non-fault issues. You should ask yourself why each happened, and whether you could have been somewhere else. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time may be a choice. The insurance companies will assess you as higher risk if you are a frequent victim.

This is part of what I do for a living. Remedial training for businesses when their employees have had collisions. Where, how, why, etc. A lot of incidents can be avoided with a little foresight, hindsight can help prevent further occurrences.
Suppose 3 people going into the back of me over 6.5 years could have been avoided also.....

Perhaps we should just not drive, no-one. Couldn't have collisions then.
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Old 16-04-2013   #47
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Re: Another Accident

so i shouldnt keep parking in middle lane of the M1?
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Old 16-04-2013   #48
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
Suppose 3 people going into the back of me over 6.5 years could have been avoided also.....
Possibly, but would need to know details to assess and advise how to prevent/avoid. This isn't the place really.
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Old 16-04-2013   #49
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
the ombudsman or some one needs to looking in to these hikes for non fault its not fair at all
Couldn't agree more. Especially with all the crash for cash schemes going about. Only going to get worse once Romania gets the 'open door' policy into the country

A 2000 insurance claim is not far of an average year's salary to them...
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Last edited by ChrisUK; 16-04-2013 at 01:02.
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Old 18-04-2013   #50
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Re: Another Accident

They can't discriminate any more against men, even though we cost more in claims than women. But they can discriminate against someone having non-fault claims.

I can see both sides. It sounds like you've had a run of very bad luck Dave. I know about your bus, the car into the back of you and now this.

On the other hand, someone who for example lives on a busy road that they have to park on may have a lot of non-fault claims. I could understand why they might end up having to pay more.

I had a period of everyone crashing into me a few years ago. Thankfully it was just a blip.
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Old 18-04-2013   #51
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by Doofer View Post
On the other hand, someone who for example lives on a busy road that they have to park on may have a lot of non-fault claims. I could understand why they might end up having to pay more.
Why?

If none fault / blame then costs can be recovered in full.
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Old 18-04-2013   #52
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
Why?

If none fault / blame then costs can be recovered in full.
The insurance companies try to assess risk. Initially they categorise us by postcode, vehicle model, age, etc., known quantities and can compare with history of that age group, location, etc. If down your street there is someone of a similar age, with a similar car, he gets to pay the same as you. Then when he has a non-fault collision, and you don't, his insurance next year is weighted as he now represents a higher risk. He may think this is unfair, but you have demonstrated that you have not put yourself in harm's way, whereas he has. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is considered to be a choice you've made. Those of us who have not been squashed are seen as better risks.

From the start of this thread, if Dave had parked elsewhere in the car park, the rack would have missed his car. That's a simple answer. He may have few options with space available, and having his grandson with him. Parking elsewhere might have caused him to suffer greater damage, but we don't know. So the insurance companies increase premiums for everyone who has had a claim.

Hopefully this makes a little more sense now, if still seeming unfair.
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Old 18-04-2013   #53
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Re: Another Accident

I can understand factors like parking in a corner of a car park so that you are well away from other vehicles etc. but how do you avoid somebody rear-ending you when you are stood still at traffic lights? (other than not using the car of course). How is this putting yourself in harms way?
It seems to me that the insurance companies work differently here to other countries. They find every excuse to load premiums, every excuse to delay or avoid payment, collaborate in the exchange of information for cash reward, and are lamentably bad at investigating fraud.
The reason of course for this lamentable performance is so that they can more than cover the fraud costs by charging honests motorists even more!
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Old 18-04-2013   #54
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by pooroldcodger View Post
...but how do you avoid somebody rear-ending you when you are stood still at traffic lights?
As you slow to a stop, control following traffic by slowing early, not arriving and braking firmly.

If you are the last to join the queue, stop 1-2 car lengths back. Keep an eye on the mirror. If someone approaches quickly, use the brake lights several times to try to wake him up. If this fails, try the hazard lights. Still not working, start to trickle very slowly forward, using the brake lights or hazard lights again until he starts braking. He is now trying to stop before he hits you, but you still have nearly two car lengths extra to allow him as he gets close. Don't move forwards too quickly, or he will release the brakes. If you've got it right, he stops before you contact the car ahead.

Other options include moving forward through the red lights, if space permits. Mostly there is at least a car length available. Don't go any further than absolutely necessary, technically an offence but if you can demonstrate it was to prevent a collision it shouldn't be a problem. Too big a gap could be an issue.

Drive onto the pavement or verge, let the clown hit the car ahead of you. (Done that)

Turn sharp left into a driveway, done that too.

If however you've been stopped some time, with stationary vehicles behind and the clown behind decides to drive away before you, there's not much you can do.

No charge.
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Old 18-04-2013   #55
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
As you slow to a stop, control following traffic by slowing early, not arriving and braking firmly.
Doesn't work if you have been stopped for 15 seconds though does it?
If you are the last to join the queue, stop 1-2 car lengths back. Keep an eye on the mirror. If someone approaches quickly, use the brake lights several times to try to wake him up. If this fails, try the hazard lights. Still not working, start to trickle very slowly forward, using the brake lights or hazard lights again until he starts braking. He is now trying to stop before he hits you, but you still have nearly two car lengths extra to allow him as he gets close. Don't move forwards too quickly, or he will release the brakes. If you've got it right, he stops before you contact the car ahead.

Other options include moving forward through the red lights, if space permits. Mostly there is at least a car length available. Don't go any further than absolutely necessary, technically an offence but if you can demonstrate it was to prevent a collision it shouldn't be a problem. Too big a gap could be an issue.

Drive onto the pavement or verge, let the clown hit the car ahead of you. (Done that)

Turn sharp left into a driveway, done that too.

If however you've been stopped some time, with stationary vehicles behind and the clown behind decides to drive away before you, there's not much you can do.
Exactly! Or, as in my case, stopped for some time, with a car ahead of me at the lights (at least I left a gap so I didn't get shunted in to the car in front), and steel railings to my left so nowhere to go.
No charge.
You're so kind. But I paid for most of the above all that already on my IAM course!
Thanks for trying to help. I still believe though that the insurance companies could do more to tackle fraud, but won't becasue it gives them an excuse to inflate premiums.
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Old 18-04-2013   #56
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
The insurance companies try to assess risk. Initially they categorise us by postcode, vehicle model, age, etc., known quantities and can compare with history of that age group, location, etc. If down your street there is someone of a similar age, with a similar car, he gets to pay the same as you. Then when he has a non-fault collision, and you don't, his insurance next year is weighted as he now represents a higher risk. He may think this is unfair, but you have demonstrated that you have not put yourself in harm's way, whereas he has. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is considered to be a choice you've made. Those of us who have not been squashed are seen as better risks.

From the start of this thread, if Dave had parked elsewhere in the car park, the rack would have missed his car. That's a simple answer. He may have few options with space available, and having his grandson with him. Parking elsewhere might have caused him to suffer greater damage, but we don't know. So the insurance companies increase premiums for everyone who has had a claim.

Hopefully this makes a little more sense now, if still seeming unfair.
You've got part of your argument right, but not really all of it. Luckily I don't go with the cheapest insurance company out there, as a result luckily none fault claims don't load my policy, but I know many companies do.
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Old 19-04-2013   #57
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Re: Another Accident

Got B&M to cough up yet?
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Old 19-04-2013   #58
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
As you slow to a stop, control following traffic by slowing early, not arriving and braking firmly.

If you are the last to join the queue, stop 1-2 car lengths back. Keep an eye on the mirror. If someone approaches quickly, use the brake lights several times to try to wake him up. If this fails, try the hazard lights. Still not working, start to trickle very slowly forward, using the brake lights or hazard lights again until he starts braking. He is now trying to stop before he hits you, but you still have nearly two car lengths extra to allow him as he gets close. Don't move forwards too quickly, or he will release the brakes. If you've got it right, he stops before you contact the car ahead.

Other options include moving forward through the red lights, if space permits. Mostly there is at least a car length available. Don't go any further than absolutely necessary, technically an offence but if you can demonstrate it was to prevent a collision it shouldn't be a problem. Too big a gap could be an issue.

Drive onto the pavement or verge, let the clown hit the car ahead of you. (Done that)

Turn sharp left into a driveway, done that too.

If however you've been stopped some time, with stationary vehicles behind and the clown behind decides to drive away before you, there's not much you can do.

No charge.
All totally obvious stuff. It sounds like you make a living out of taking people's watch off their wrist then telling them what time it is.

While some non-fault accidents could be avoidable, sometimes you're just unlucky. I had a similar run of bad luck a few years ago - I was sure my car had a giant magnet in it.

I don't think a self-admitted know-all saying this was Dave's fault helps in any way.
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Old 19-04-2013   #59
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Re: Another Accident

Quote Originally Posted by Doofer View Post
All totally obvious stuff. It sounds like you make a living out of taking people's watch off their wrist then telling them what time it is.

While some non-fault accidents could be avoidable, sometimes you're just unlucky. I had a similar run of bad luck a few years ago - I was sure my car had a giant magnet in it.

I don't think a self-admitted know-all saying this was Dave's fault helps in any way.
Why are you being rude?

If it was obvious, why do so few people appear to know or apply it? I do make a living telling people this stuff, all day, 5 days a week, very few follow this advice already, many struggle to do it, even with coaching.

Can't see where I actually said it was Dave's fault. That'll be your assumption, for which you attack me. My response was because a question was asked.
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Old 19-04-2013   #60
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Re: Another Accident

I think your suggestion that Dave could have parked further away from the shop might not have helped. I suspect he had his own reasons for being very close to the entrance.
I think the reply above was a bit abrupt and un-deserved, but you were preaching somewhat!
Don't take offence. I can see your advice was well-intentioned.
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