My Croma has let me down again by going in to limp mode and 'check Engine' message again, so its going; have it booked in tomorrow to get sorted then its off to collect a Mondeo Ghia ive bought to replace it with.

Sorry to hear this.

Any idea (not that you possibly care anymore) what the fault is/was?

I've already voiced my lack of trust in modern diesel engines. They have become far to complicated in a very short space of time. The 4 stoke petrol engine has remained remained very stable since the intruction of cats many years ago. The diesel engine has been bombarded with emissions AND desired performance enhancements in the last few years and the pressure to keep this drive up has resulted in (IMHO) and unstable, low history development platform that has been thrust onto the public well before it's natural "fit for use" time.

All manufacturers are having problems, some major likes BMW's swirl valve nut ingestion and wrecked engines, etc. etc. Most suffer EGR, DPF and emissions related failures that are generally unheard of on modern petrol engines.

For me, next time round I'm going back to petrol.

blocked DPF filter (again) due to car doing many short journeys and not getting warm for long enough to do regen.

My friends at my old Fiat dealership did forced regen FOC

And Yes Ive gone back to petrol power too.

so it's user at fault, and not croma being unreliable then, heh?

i would go back to petrol as well but i wouldn't afford the road tax for a car with similar power

and those new fiat/alfa 2.0 diesel power plants are very tempting, 170bhp and only 135 pounds tax per year:slayer:

arti_abarth said:

and those new fiat/alfa 2.0 diesel power plants are very tempting, 170bhp and only 135 pounds tax per year:slayer:

Click to expand...

PLUS higher UK diesel fuel cost, PLUS EGR valve replacements, PLUS DPF filter forced regen or replacement costs, PLUS ...... :devil:

A little something I miss from a top performance diesel engine is the thrill / buzz of putting pedal to the metal on a petrol engine. There is that "something" that a hard driven petrol engine (even if it is slower) gives over a turbo diesel engine.

Possibly rate of RPM climp, top end buzz, etc, etc,

Who knows but the "feel" and feedback is definitely different.

Yes but I like the torque and low RPM cruising that the diesel gives.

That said next car will be petrol for all the reasons above. I agree totally with your analysis of Derv engine development over recent years - the only people who seem to have got it right are Honda and Mercedes. Reliability used to be a diesel watchword - not any more.

Just for info, a number of taxi drivers are now going back to petrol with LPG conversions.

I actually had a serious look at electric power for our next car - for use as a second car that only does short journeys. I was looking at a 3-year old electric Citroen C1 on ebay (now closed, reserve not met)...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item35bfa167a6&item=230848292774&nma=true&pt=Automobiles_UK&rt=nc&si=P%252FPWAV1EEZkKVH0crkl1KaLoEuU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

It does up to 60 miles on a charge, which costs around £1. It can do 60 mph. Sounds great.

One analysis I read says you'll save over a grand a year against petrol doing 10k miles per year.

BUT... The batteries cost many £1000s, and only last 3-5 years. Their capacity starts diminishing from day 1, at about 20% per year.

So a total waste of money. If you lived in London, where they're congestion charge exempt and you get free parking and charging it might be worth thinking about. Otherwise, forget it.

So when we go from one car to two we'll get a small petrol, but keep the Croma for longer journeys. The Croma still has many strengths despite its annoyances.

Could not agree more with everything that has been said.

Diesels are far too complicated these days. Back to petrol for me too when I change the Croma. Shame cos its a nice car just too unreliable. Every time I use it I get the feeling something is going to go wrong with it.

Back to Ford I think.

s130 said:

PLUS higher UK diesel fuel cost, PLUS EGR valve replacements, PLUS DPF filter forced regen or replacement costs, PLUS ...... :devil:

Click to expand...

86k miles and I'm still on the original egr that came with the car - it's a completely serviceable part, I don't know why everybody buys new ones
my DPF is fine as well, I never used forced regen, my dpf regenerates every 900 miles, last Saturday I did 350miles, it regenerated just on the beginning of the journey, on Sunday so 300 miles from regen I did the oil change and it was saying 24%/not clogged
I'm using DPF compatible engine oil (I now that's silly to write about it but some people just put whatever/cheapest in and then complain:bang, and every now and then I'm taking the car for a good high rev trashing on the DC:slayer:

what I'm worried about is the imminent turbo and dual mass flywheel failure...

Not everybody has DPF issues (I haven't) or EGR issues (one was developing just before going on a 3k mile trip to Europe so I bought a NEW EGR valve and no have the old as a cleaned/fixed emergency spare). Do short journeys, start/stop journeys etc. the DPF becomes an issue. Same for EGR which is basically always open on commuting trips. Also pumping sooty and oily dust back into the inlet manifold is not IMHO a good engineering design.

You mention dual mass flywheel (DMF). Been there and paid heavily for it. Nothing wrong with the clutch plate but the cover pressure plate spring failed on my Croma (at less than 50k miles). Cost me a shed load of money in parts and labour. You can't change the clutch on a Croma without having to have the whole engine/suspension subframe removed. This involves steering rack separation, suspension separation, etc.

The DMFs on modern diesel engines are supposed to be "for life" fitments but in reality they are far from that. My DMF had quite a bit of play in it which is why it was replaced despite the low mileage.

WHAT I WANT is a nice *FIAT* 1.9, 16V, 150BHP diesel engine with no DPF, no EGR, no DMF and no GM parts. Is that too much to ask for?

You need a remapped 2.4 then
DPF gutted and deleted, EGR blanked off and deleted, auto box so no DMF and Alfa spec alternator and MAF. Plus 250 BHP to put a smile on your face!!

But I must agree that I am also seriously considering a petrol next time around, possibly with a LPG conversion. No doubt that will bring it's own set of problems too.

I just can't bring myself to sell it just yet, because it's such an awesome package for the money. Mind you, the MOT is on Saturday....

Just passed the MOT with flying colours; just an advisory that the rear suspension arms have slight play in them. Probably complete units knowing Fiat, but I'm not in any hurry to replace them just yet! Looks like I'll be keeping it for the foreseeable

halilson said:

Probably complete units knowing Fiat,

Click to expand...

i thought they was a GM bit

Probably are Dave, as the struts are too. I'll find out on Monday.

Just to put things into context, most of the problems are GM parts. So if you'd bought a Vectra you'd get all the same issues, probably plus a load more from the GM bodywork, cabin and electrics. And you'd have paid more, have no interior space... and be driving a Vectra.

might be worth replacing bushes with powerflex?

rear suspension on a croma is all adjustable so i'd advice 4 wheel alignment after any work, at a place that knows how to use their machine

I quite liked the idea of upgrading to Powerflex - until I saw the price! I can get a complete arm for £25, but Poweflex are £45 per bush plus the aggravation of removing the old ones and pressing new ones in. IMHO I don't think it's worth that sort of outlay for the amount of driving that I do. OE are more than adequate.

Well 2 weeks into Petrol power and no problems plus fuel consumption in high 30's which is only a little below what the Croma did, plus road tax is £60 yr less and I got a £50 refund on balance of 6mths insurance after they added in the £45 change fee. My insurance for the yr will be about £100 less, that and lower road tax & fuel costs means that I doubt that I will be paying any more to run the Mondeo and as its a Ford; parts are dirt cheap too

So what petrol wagon did you finally settle on?