Technical EOBD Warning Light

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Technical EOBD Warning Light

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Aug 18, 2009
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Cheltenham
Today after half an hours drive the engine warning light lit up and a message appeared on the display "check engine". The manual says that this means i have a fault in the supply/ignition system.

After trying to find something similar in other threads on here am i right in thinking that this is probably my EGR valve? Is there anything else it could be?

My car is an 8v 1.9 Eleganza

And just as a side line, when i got the car i was told that it would tell me when the oil and filter needed changing. This was 14000 miles (16 months) ago. Is there a way of finding out when it is going to tell me. According to the display, the next service is due in 1900 miles if this is relevant

Thanks in advance
 
You can find out more about both issues using the FiatECUScan software for free, together with a cheap cable from ebay.

Search within this forum for fiatecuscan for the info on it.
 
I doubt if it is the EGR, this doesn't often trigger the engine warning light, unless it's been blanked off of course.

Service indicator: Whilst idle and with the engine running, press the menu button on the lh switch on the bank of switches on the right of the dashboard. Scroll up (or down) until the word 'Service' is displayed on the dash and press the menu button again.
 
You next service in 1900 miles will be the annual/18,000 mile service interval. It has not directly to do with the oil degradation/change warning OTHER than the fact the Fiat recommend changing the oil every 18K miles.

The oil degradation can be read with FiatECUScan (as well as reset when one does an oil change) and this gives a guide as to when the next oil change will be required. I can't remember if it also shows a mileage. Personally I would not allow the oil to get that old and I would be changing the oil every 12K miles and certainly every 18K miles.

From figures I've seen on my car I doubt the oil change light would come on till 24K+ miles.
 
In my case the EOBD light came on with an EGR failure. It also came on when I had a blown hose.

What were the circumstances of the light coming on? Sudden power loss or a gradual loss? In my own experience the sudden power loss was due to a blown hose and cost a few pounds to fix. The gradual loss was over a period of weeks and was the slow failure of the EGR valve.

HTH
 
Many thanks to you all.

After about a half hour drive at a steady 60ish, then slowed down for some traffic and it just flashed up and told me to check the engine. I did, nothing looked untoward. The temperature gauge was steady and it was ticking over normally so i carried on into work. The warning light was still on on the way home and i used a lot more fuel than normal.

Next morning i started it up and the light has gone out and has not come back on since. My fuel usage is back to normal as well.

Doofer, re your ecuscan idea, i don't even know where to plug the lead in so unless there is an idiots guide on here i don't feel confident enough to go and buy such lead as i'm not sure i would understand anything the car told me anyway (unless it is in plain English).

I was talking to a bloke at work and he reckoned if i took it into Fiat, they would charge me an hours labour just to plug their machine in to find out what was wrong. Is this a myth?
 
I'm pleased you light has gone out.

Regarding EOBD, fault code checking, etc. then let me hopefully explain in terms that you may be able to understand.

1) EOBD is simply Engine OnBoard Diagnostics. Originally required/enforced, I believe in Califorina USA, the EOBD system is an open protocol to allow state official authorities to check cars for faults that would increase vehicle emissions.

2) Since US requirements EOBD is now standard across USA and Europe plus other places. EOBD flags faults and is very specific e.g. engine injector 2 malfunctioning.

3) Fault codes are either generic for all makes an models as required by EOBD standards or will be more specific/proprietory for systems and faults OUTSIDE of the required stardard requirements.

4) Given the above all modern ECUs monitor their performance and external sensor signals. If a fualt is found then it is logged, and depending on severity, may cuase the Engine Fault Light to come on.

5) Once a fualt has been logged the ECU will in most cases will either wait for the fault to be externally reset by diagnostic equipment AND/OR will continue to monitor for the fault and if the fault does not happen again within some many hours/miles the fault is removed from the system. On removal all warnings are reset.

6) Your Croma is equiped with and EOBD / diagnostic socket. This is located behind the little dasboard pocket to the lower RHS of the steering wheel (As are all the fuses). It is a 16 pin socket looking like this: http://www.auterraweb.com/obdiipinout.html

7) EOBD diagnostic equipment ranges from simple fault code readers costing less than £50 to more advance ones which allow the viewing of sensors data streams. These cost around £100. Take a look at http://www.gendan.co.uk/ There are plenty of other providers out there so I suggest you Google for yourself.

8) EOBD is Engine! Having said that the EOBD connector has connections for other car systems like Engine,Airbags,ABS,Power Steering, etc. etc. On some cars these system can get near 100 different types

9) Given what I have said in (8) then it becomes clear that for other than OBD/EOBD then more specialist software and hardware, like what the manufacurers/dealers use is required.

10) FiatECUScan is one of those more specialist tools that will allow, via a computer and suitable hardware (e.g. VAG/KKL or ELM interfaces), connections to not only Engine diagnostics but also many other vehicle systems depending on current model support (which is expanding every day.... http://fiatecuscan.net/

11) All the above is not rocket science and I hope if you do a little research/googling then you will get a better understanding.

12) Fiat / other garages have different charge rates for services. As you might expect an hours labour cost for a tyre technician will/should be less then that of an engine technician. Beyond that there are specialist diagnostic technicians. Yep, get to DT level and the cost to plug in a piece of computer kit, read a code, and report back what appears to be a "scientific" defacto diagnosis is expensive. Hopefully this expense is well justified as the technician has done a shed load of other tests, coupled with his/her extensive experience and knowledge to fully support what the computer says and and also rule out OTHER factors which could cause the same problem.

13) Regarding Fiat (or others) charging an hour to 'plug-in' and read an error can be both true and false. Reading the fault code is trivial. I could do this in about one minute and certainly less than five minutes. As eluded to in 12) there is/should be more involved that just reading a code. When it comes to certain safety issue faults, like ABS or Airbags then the tester/dealer is oblidged to run a full suite of tests to ensure that your car is 100% fit in every safety aspect. They would be fools not too. These tests, if done properly and professionally can take 30 to 60 minutes depending on system/fault.

14) With regards to 13) one can only hope that the garage/technician has done the job properly. Unless you watch over the guys/gals should for 100% of the time then you will never know if they did a 5 minute 'read code' or a full diagnostic.
 
I was talking to a bloke at work and he reckoned if i took it into Fiat, they would charge me an hours labour just to plug their machine in to find out what was wrong. Is this a myth?[/QUOTE]

I would recommend buying the lead and downloading the ECUscan software, I had a similar problem and my local FIAT dealer wanted £90 + VAT to do a diagnostic scan. I paid 9 quid for the KKL lead from EBay and the software was a free download, It has saved me a lot of money and I have it for the future now, using it is straight forward, there is info on this forum on how to use it.
 
s130 Thankyou very much for taking the time to write that essay for me. I think the least i can do now is do a little research on here as to what lead to buy and go for it.

bobbyblue, thanks for sharing
 
I disagree, a failed or failing EGR normally gives an air flow/boost error thus bringing EOBD light on.

Agreed my GP 1.9 Mjet EGR failed bringing the EOBD light on. Dealer diagnosis confirmed this. EGR replaced and now running like a dream.

Worth checking.
 
Is this lead suitable please?

Sorry, i don't know how to do links (Dosn't bode well for reading my car does it :confused: )

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAG-COM-USB-4...s_Equipment&hash=item4154e500db#ht_4988wt_932

That cable will only give connection to some of your Croma systems. The Croma also has CAN based systems so these will not be abled to be accessed with just a KKL cable.

For your specific EOBD Engine light then a simple KKL cable will suffice. This with Fiat ECUScan free will be able to read and reset the engine errors.

Look here for a full guide to Croma (an other car) connection details:

http://fiatecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

I started out with simple KKL and then added ELM. These with either patch cables or simple wiring mods will cater for most needs, but of course doing this costs a little more BUT is still way cheaper than other solutions.



If you
 
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I still have not taken the plunge and got one of these leads yet.

I am looking at getting one of the ELM leads but the only ones i can find on ebay say not for service (i am thinking of the future so i can reset my service and oil/dpf warnings).

I have looked online and was overwhelmed with the choice i have.

Please is it possible for someone to give me a link to a cable (and patch lead, i dont want to do any soldering) that will work with my car.

Thanks in advance

PS - Touch wood, but my original problem that started this thread has not returned :)
 
Many thanks to whoever it was that changed my info in to the link above, but that link is not what i was after info for. My original link was for ebay item 300532247005
 
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Re: EOBD Warning Light 2005 Croma

This has been asked before, but the answer didn't seem to apply to my car.
Where exactly is the eobd socket to plug in the fault code tool on a right-hand drive 2005 Croma ? I've had a look behind the fuse holder cover panel on the lower dash between the steering column and the rhf door, and I've looked below the left hand dash under the glove box - I haven't gone as far as to take the glove box out yet. I've also had a look around in the engine compartment - no luck. Reputedly, the socket is by the aforementioned fuse holder, but I can't see it there. The only likely looking sockets already have plugs in them which are protected with plastic locktabs. Anyone know the answer to this one?
The check engine light has come on, and I'm trying to find the reason - a new EGR valve was fitted recently, and an air control valve too.
 
Re: EOBD Warning Light 2005 Croma

This has been asked before, but the answer didn't seem to apply to my car.
Where exactly is the eobd socket to plug in the fault code tool on a right-hand drive 2005 Croma ? I've had a look behind the fuse holder cover panel on the lower dash between the steering column and the rhf door, and I've looked below the left hand dash under the glove box - I haven't gone as far as to take the glove box out yet. I've also had a look around in the engine compartment - no luck. Reputedly, the socket is by the aforementioned fuse holder, but I can't see it there. The only likely looking sockets already have plugs in them which are protected with plastic locktabs. Anyone know the answer to this one?
The check engine light has come on, and I'm trying to find the reason - a new EGR valve was fitted recently, and an air control valve too.

what spec croma..as it may make a difference, :confused:

they are generally in/ around the fusebox in dash on 95% of modern Fiats;)

it'll have wedge shaped sides to it..!! (y)

Charlie
 
Re: EOBD Warning Light 2005 Croma

Thanks for the quick response Charlie
Its a 1.9d 16 Eleganza manual. Like I said, the fusebox area doesn't seem to have a socket like it, in fact it doesn't seem to have any sockets that are not occupied already with a plug. I've got a diagnostic OBD2 scanner and can't see a corresponding shaped socket to accept it? It won't have any kind of plug already in it, will it?
 
Re: EOBD Warning Light 2005 Croma

It really really is there, with the fuses. I look in confusion every time I look for mine, it's well hidden.

It's recessed back, so you can't see it at all if you're sitting in the driver's seat. Sit on the ground next to the car and you'll see it. There's nothing plugged into it.
 
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