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Old 01-12-2010   #31
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Indonesian actually, not Chinese. To say they're Chinese is a bit like saying British tyres are Russian. Or are they all just Johnny Foreigners?

I've got no vested interest. I've always bought high-priced tyres in the past (and have parted with a few grand in the process). I experimented with the Hankooks (Korean, or perhaps also Chinese to you), and they were fine. Nobody died, nothing unexpected happened. I therefore decided to try cheaper still, and ended up with the Forceum tyres, which have so far been perfectly good, even on ice, rain and snow.

I was nervous about going so cheap, until I walked past a row of waiting taxis and saw every economy brand I've heard of on them. Not one had Michelin, Continental, Good Year etc. Judging by the way they drive and the number of miles they do, I reckon we'd have heard of the spate of exploding tyre deaths by now if they were that dangerous.

Flick through Autocar and you'll probably see a number of full-page tyre ads from the expensive brands. The tests are usually done at a tyre maker's test track. I'm not saying they would falsify the results, but they can select their samples carefully. There's no doubt that there are dangerous tyres about, but you or I have no idea which ones they are.

If I was to compare Waitrose's cheapest "value" food with LIDL's most expensive range, would it be fair to conclude that LIDL food is always better, and that Waitrose food is cheap and nasty? Or that German food is good, and all British food is awful?

I wouldn't rely on any tyre tests at present, until the EU actually get round to doing something useful and start performing proper tests of all tyres. Until then, we're all guessing. I suspect that the big European tyre companies will have a chat with the EU to make sure this never happens, as I suspect the results would show that there are many low-cost imports that are every bit as good as is made here.

I'm sure there are lots of vested interests at play here, e.g. from the msnbc article above...

Imports of Chinese tires have grown from 15 million tires in 2000 to 46 million last year, according to the United Steelworkers union, which has accused China of unfair trade practices. The union, which represents workers in the rubber industry, said Chinese tires imports have accelerated this year, with August imports up 57 percent over January levels based on the weight of tires unloaded on U.S. docks.

Says it all really. Also, the tests in the Autocar test were, by the sound of it, performed by Continental. They concluded that (surprise, surprise) theirs were the best. They probably tested a hundred or so foreign tyres in private before doing their proper test with their selection of rivals. Don't believe any of it.
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Old 02-12-2010   #32
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

I wouldn't use taxi drivers as a barometer of best practice. Budget tyres are not necessarily unsafe, but they are not as good as the more expensive ones. That said, the more expensive ones are not necessarily the best either.

Auto Express often conduct their own independant tyre tests which are quite comprehensive. Generally, they have found that mid range tryes perform nearly as well as the top brands but that budget ones perform significantlly worse.

Vredstein usually come out well in their tests. One shocker is that Michelin (one of the most expensive on the market) don't often do that well. Perhaps they are like the restaurants that bear the same mark: overpriced and over rated.
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Old 02-12-2010   #33
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

The Far East manufacturing countries are becoming the bedrock and quality suppliers of just about all ectronic goods. I remember as a kid in the 50s the olde Christmas Cracker was the first exposure (other than fireworks) that I got with Chinese products and they were the cheap plastic tack that everybody shunned and helped build and solidify the "anything from the far east is cheap and low quality".

Given a little more time then like the electronics industry that tyre industry over there will begin to dominate.

Only a matter of time.
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Old 02-12-2010   #34
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

I have just put a pair of Pirelli P7's on the front and althought they are a bit noisier than the Toyo Proxes they replaced they are a good deal better in the snow and ice. The Proxes were nice to look at but seemed to wear out quickly - approx 15,000 miles. I do a lot of stop-start motoring, so when I get to the twisty B-road portion of my commute I often put my foot down and do 61-ish. Officer .

On the back I have a pair of Goodyear Eagle NCT-5's and they look almost brand new, despite having done milage only just short of the Toyo's.
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Old 04-12-2010   #35
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Quote Originally Posted by cromachris View Post
On the back I have a pair of Goodyear Eagle NCT-5's and they look almost brand new, despite having done milage only just short of the Toyo's.
I replaced all four of mine at the same time with Hankook V12 EVO's last year. The backs were almost new-looking after the fronts had worn down to the limit bumps. The Croma seems to wear the fronts a lot quicker than the backs, so back tyres that last a long time are not necessarily a mark of a hard-wearing tyre.

I should add that ours is mainly used as a one- or two-seater, and we don't tow anything.

I got the fronts swapped for the Forceum tyres, then rotated back-front to put the newest on the back (as you always should, and anyone who disagrees is wrong).
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Old 04-12-2010   #36
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

I replaced my 4 Avon ZZRs (which had started to become noisy as they wore) with Barum Bravarius 2s. They have been on now for 8 months and have proved excellent, wearing evenly, quiet and with good grip in the wet, they are slightly less responsive to quick turns and understeer slightly more than the Avons when pushed but unless you drive like Michael Schumacher it shouldn't matter.
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Old 07-12-2010   #37
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblue View Post
...but unless you drive like Michael Schumacher it shouldn't matter.

Und vot ist vong viss drifink like ze most famous driver of ze Crroma?!
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Old 07-12-2010   #38
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Quote Originally Posted by cromachris View Post
Und vot ist vong viss drifink like ze most famous driver of ze Crroma?!
O.K. I see you have got the famous sense of humour sometimes demanded if you drive a Croma
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Old 07-12-2010   #39
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

This is getting off topic but...it is December 2010 and Christmas is nearing ...

Whilst I admire?/appreciate?/ etc. Schumi I have a problem.

Italian cars NEED to be driven by Italian drivers to maximise the brand, following and heriatage.

See
Category:Italian_Formula_One_drivers Category:Italian_Formula_One_drivers

Add World Rally and Touring Car Champioships then the more the better.

Sadly only a few Italian drivers have reached the top and consistantly won.

In absence of an Italian the Schumi, Alen, Rohrl etc. will do nicely.
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Old 11-12-2010   #40
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Absolutely!!! Italians are not the best drivers, but are the most spirited.

Better to die in a blaze of glory than in bed with your boots on.
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Old 13-12-2010   #41
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

The car is a Prestigio 150 Auto and came with Bridgestone Potenzas 225/45 R18.which tramlined quite badly and were replaced at about 20,000. I thus tried Avon ZZ3s bought on the internet via Tyre Shopper for 116. Between 12-16K miles they started humming at the rear and eventually the tread parted from the sidewall. Avon were very good and replaced FOC. However the new ones have now reached the same mileage and the humming has just started although the tyres look perfect and are half worn. One possible explanation is the speed humps at the bottom of the road which just manage to catch the inside edge of the tyres possibly 20 times per working day.
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Old 13-12-2010   #42
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Quote Originally Posted by kennethgordon View Post
The car is a Prestigio 150 Auto and came with Bridgestone Potenzas 225/45 R18.which tramlined quite badly and were replaced at about 20,000. I thus tried Avon ZZ3s bought on the internet via Tyre Shopper for 116. Between 12-16K miles they started humming at the rear and eventually the tread parted from the sidewall. Avon were very good and replaced FOC. However the new ones have now reached the same mileage and the humming has just started although the tyres look perfect and are half worn. One possible explanation is the speed humps at the bottom of the road which just manage to catch the inside edge of the tyres possibly 20 times per working day.
The humming is more likely due to the way the tyres wore due to the large amounts of camber at the back end. I had a set of Goodyears that did the same.

BTW it's not good to drive over speed humps in that manner. It splays the wheels and prematurely wears the suspension bushes.
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Old 13-12-2010   #43
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Quote Originally Posted by Radlet6 View Post
BTW it's not good to drive over speed humps in that manner. It splays the wheels and prematurely wears the suspension bushes.
I've seen roads where they've put two of these square humps across the width of the road - one per carriageway. You have to drive in the middle of the road to drive over them properly. I'm always worried about ripping the sump off by driving with a wheel on each side of one hump.

I'm guessing that the original intention was that there should be three across the width of the road, so cars drive square over two of them but ambulances can drive straight down the middle of the road and completely miss them, straddling the centre one with their wider axles and higher ground clearance.

Perhaps councils aren't reading the instructions on them any more.
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Old 14-12-2010   #44
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

Quote Originally Posted by kennethgordon View Post
The car is a Prestigio 150 Auto and came with Bridgestone Potenzas 225/45 R18.which tramlined quite badly and were replaced at about 20,000. I thus tried Avon ZZ3s bought on the internet via Tyre Shopper for 116. Between 12-16K miles they started humming at the rear and eventually the tread parted from the sidewall. Avon were very good and replaced FOC. However the new ones have now reached the same mileage and the humming has just started although the tyres look perfect and are half worn. One possible explanation is the speed humps at the bottom of the road which just manage to catch the inside edge of the tyres possibly 20 times per working day.
Thinking about it some more, I reckon you can be almost certain that the speed bumps are what's wrecking your tyres. If you're driving along the sloped sides of them then that must put the inside sidewalls under huge compression. As the opposite side of the tyre is in the air, the air inside the tyre won't be compressed, so each of the inside edges will be crushed under the weight of the car.

This would do all sorts of nastiness to the sidewalls and the corner between the tread and sidewall.

As I said earlier, I think the councils are fitting these bumps in the wrong place. I usually try and drive one side alongside the bump (on the flat road surface), with the other side going up and over the centre of the bump.

I can imagine the council meeting where some "bright spark" did a Powerpoint presentation, showing that by using 2 instead of 3 they could save x per installation.
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Last edited by Doofer; 14-12-2010 at 15:22.
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Old 14-12-2010   #45
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Re: Croma Tyre Choices

I'm lead to believe, a couple of years ago, the residents of a local school street on which numerous /----\ speed bumps were installed experienced suspension bush damage after a year or so of regular traversal and put claims into the councils for the repairs.

The speed bump still exist and I generally (not always) put either the N/S or O/S wheels directly up and over the middle of the bumps. I slow right down to walking pace over the bumps but then find, depsite the 20mph zone cars overtake well in excess of the 20mph limit and just fast driving over the bumps. Company cars and vans are the worst offenders.

I would like to see the Swedish? water speed control ramps installed in the UK. These are long tubes filled with water with air space for water displacement. If you drive slowly over these then the water just gently displaces to the sides. Hit them at speed and it is like driving up a kerb head on at that speed. You only do this once or twice!
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