So now DoIDon'tI has told me I need a new thermostat, I'm going to need to change the coolant.

What's the best stuff to get? Decent stuff for a sensible price.

I saw Halfords Advanced is £20.99 for 5 litres. It's OAT based. I wouldn't normally buy there, but is this type of stuff suitable? How many litres do I need anyway?

Given the frailty of some of the JTD cooling system components (step forward the water pump and hoses) I'd seriously consider using Paraflu as per the original. Unless you do a complete drain then you won't need more than a couple of litres even at a 50% concentration - when I changed the water pump on my 2.4 as part of the cambelt change I drained the radiator as well, but even then I ended up using just over two litres of Paraflu. Shop4parts sell it at £7 a litre.

Your worry should be how much the thermostat costs

There are actually two kinds of Paraflu: the old fashioned blue/green one, and the long life, red colored stuff.
You probably need the long life version, just look at the existing coolant color, and you will know.

It's not due for a coolant change for another year, but I'll do a full change anyway. As it's supposed to last for 5 years, I'll skip the change next year, so it'll wait for 3 years until the next time.

I'd prefer to drain and refill, as I don't want to spill it on the bodywork and/or driveway. I've read that cats like the stuff (sweet smelling) and a very small amount will kill them.

Thanks for the info on Paraflu. Having read that the red OE stuff is OAT-based, that gives me the confidence to use cheaper OAT-based stuff instead. I've found CarPlan red 5-year stuff for £14.98 for 5 litres at my local EuroCarParts. I'll get some de-mineralised water too, as we have hard water.

A controversial alternative theory on frailty... could it be that Paraflu isn't very good, as most would be using it?

I'll update with the price of the thermostat later.

De-mineralized water is a must, forgotten(?) by most however.....!!

eh....I don't get your point about Paraflu being not good....???

Peter Pick-Up said:

eh....I don't get your point about Paraflu being not good....???

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Neither do I - just being silly

:nutter:

I use Paraflu UP long life in just one 1,6-16V Fiat engine to be honest.....!!
For the rest I use Shell anti-freeze (the green stuff) with demi water.....!!
I do use another product together with both kinds of anti-freeze: Red Line Water Wetter, just halve a bottle gives me peace of mind....
www.redlineoil.com

Yes. Always use demineralised water where possible. If you have an ion exchange water softner at home then this is OK as well.

I'm going out here a limb.

Halfords Oil, Brake and Antifreeze products are perfectly OK. They all comply with the required standards for your car and, in the case of oil, come in 5 litre cans which is an added bonus compared to the 4 litre cans whci require two to be purchased to do an oil change.

I've used the Halfords long life antifreeze with confidence and have no issues. Likewise their brake fluids. Others have similarly used their oils (assuming correct grade/applicaton/specs/etc) with no issues.

What I think we all need to do is:

1) Get the full specs of the manufacturers recommendations EXACTLY right. This can be more difficult than one thinks

2) Research ALL products that meet the specs.

3) Check your price / availability criteria etc.

4) Then go search what is available and at what price, including special offers.

A while back I bought Mobil oil from halfords an got a Halfords professional screwdriver kit for free. I bought two can of oil. Decent oil, decent price and profesional tools for free.

If you do buy Halfords brand oil as opposed to say Mobil, Texaco, Exxon/Esso, Castrol etc. then just be prepared to be a little (just a little) more cautious on the oil change interval. So if you have regularly thrashed your engine then change the oil EXACTLY on recommended schedule or preferably sooner.

At the end of the day ANY make of oil, antifreeze, brake, etc. meeting the required standard is perfectly OK. You just need to be totally aware of what you actually technically require.

Lastly, given standard X then Halfords, Comma, Mobil, Castrol etc. will meet/surpass that standard. The problem we have is by how much? Halfords or Comma oil could actually be better than say Mobil. Halfords/Comma could have bought their oil/blend from Castrol.

Bottom line:

1) check exaclty the product specifications you require
2) check availabilty and prices for quantity required
3) don't discount Halfords, Comma and other brands out of hand
4) allow a little sensible tolerance in fluid change intervals depending on your actual vehicle usage.

Another factor that is becoming more prevalent in modern vehicles/times is life span.

You can find parts and spares for many older cars over 20 years old but more modern cars often run out of spare parts because current manufacturers conform to exactly to the 10 year parts supply after production ends. So 120K miles in 10 years is a good innings and most people will be moving on. I have no doubt sensible maintenance with Halofords, Comma etc. products will deliver everything thst is required for a 10+ year lifespan. Our problem is more likely to be can the manufacturer supply the spares we need!

One exception - Ferarri - I gather for every production car they have made you can still get spare sparts from the manufacturer.

Peter Pick-Up said:

:nutter:

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Oi!

There was a kind-of point. If all Cromas have problems with the coolant system and most are using Paraflu, then it's possible that it is a factor. On a very unscientific basis, obviously. My point is that you aren't guaranteed a trouble-free heavenly life even if using all the proper stuff.

Here's a thought though - if car manufacturer A requires coolant to be 99% pure and car manufacturer B requires it to be 98% pure then (hopefully) the generic stuff should be at least 99% pure if it is to be suitable for all cars. So it may be better quality than that made by manufacturer B, therefore a better choice if you run one of their cars.

Anyway, the brand new genuine Vauxhall thermostat I was eyeing up for £5 vanished off ebay, after someone else swiped it for the £30 Buy It Now price. So may have to pay proper money instead. £38.75 is the best I've seen, including delivery for a genuine new part.

By the way, I was looking through the old invoices for the servicing from the previous owner. Both services were done by the original Fiat dealer. They put different grades of oil in each time (if they put in what's on the invoice). Not good, I hope no harm was done.

Peter Pick-Up said:

I do use another product together with both kinds of anti-freeze: Red Line Water Wetter, just halve a bottle gives me peace of mind....
www.redlineoil.com

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Thanks, had a read, and a google. Isn't this stuff intended for warm climates, where they'd normally just use plain water?

I've read reports of blue and red antifreeze reacting together to form a jelly. I'd be worried that mixing water wetter and antifreeze might have other unknown reactions.

The review I read was ballcocks anyway though - I couldn't find anything very scientific. The conclusion was that it was fool's gold, on the basis that the water didn't end up cooler after a practice lap with it against without it. Well it wouldn't, as the thermostat is there to keep the temperature steady.

Doofer said:

I've read reports of blue and red antifreeze reacting together to form a jelly. I'd be worried that mixing water wetter and antifreeze might have other unknown reactions.

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Technically I believe that you should not mixed different types of antifreeze.

On my Stilo at two years old I drained as much of the blue paraflu from the system via the radiator but this left loads in the block and heater matrix. I didn't pressure flush and just refilled with Halfords long life red antifreeze. Four years later everything was still perfectly ok and I had no problems.

Have done the same with our Barchetta and again no problems thus far (a year on from doing it).

Just because I've had no problems doesn't mean that everybody will also be OK. All I can say is that Fiat Blue/Green Paraflu seems to be perfectly OK when mixed at a concentration of less than 50% with Halfords long life red.

Water Wetter is no anti-freeze, it mixes perfectly with all kinds of anti-freeze, blue and red ( in fact it has the same red color like long life anti-freeze.)
Every little bit helps imo, that's why I'm using it in all my cars, old and new.

Counterpoint opinion from someone who keeps their cars for a long time (so gets to reap what was sown); saving a handful of pounds seems like a big risk to me if the price you pay is a breakdown or expensive component replacement. Ask yourself this question - if you were buying a used car and had the choice of two, one had been maintained with components and fluids from the manufacturer and the other had been maintained with aftermarket components and halfords/comma/carplan fluids, which one would you choose - and why?

Just a thought. Of course, if you're like most people who only keep their car for two or three years then do what you like - someone else will sort it out later, usually either a garage or someone who probably can't really afford to...

Feeling particularly cynical today, my apologies to all you cheerful people out there

DoIDon'tI said:

Counterpoint opinion from someone who keeps their cars for a long time

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Never!

Fiat/Lubrificante products are recommended and comply with international standards.

I have no issues at all with using Fiat or other mainstream products. My dad worked as a research chemist for Shell (25 years) and Esso/Exxon (20 years) formulating mainly lubricants, but also fuels, for these companies. A major part of these companies business is direct client work for Fiat, Merecedes, GM, VW, etc. etc.

Then for Esso/Exxon the additives business came under the name of Paramins.

Fiat, BMW, Mercedes etc. etc. make a lot of money from their recommended fluids. It is the business of companies like Shell & Esso to formulate blends that specifically meet their clients requirements. Just look at all the VW, GM, Ford etc. specs that litter cans of oils these days.

Now for the sanity test.

The Fiat Croma, 150, 16V engine and DPF system is identical to that of the same Vauxhall Vectra / Signum units. But Vauxhall only recommend their fluids. Why not Fiat fluids.

One possible exception I know of is the VW Pump Duse. I gather there was something strange about oil requirement for this type of pump. However this requirement is covered by quite a few makes...including Halfords.

At the end of the day we find the following. OEM parts (pistons, rings, etc. etc.) used/supplied to many car manufacurers and behind this is an international set of standards for metals, hardness, oils etc. etc.

Like I said - check exactly what your vehicle manufacturer requires for your car. They will always quote an industry standard, but will of course put their product at the top of the list and recommended.

Finally, often manufacturer's recommended products can be obtained at bargain prices (I wonder why?).

DoIDon'tI said:

Counterpoint opinion from someone who keeps their cars for a long time (so gets to reap what was sown); saving a handful of pounds seems like a big risk to me if the price you pay is a breakdown or expensive component replacement. Ask yourself this question - if you were buying a used car and had the choice of two, one had been maintained with components and fluids from the manufacturer and the other had been maintained with aftermarket components and halfords/comma/carplan fluids, which one would you choose - and why?

Just a thought. Of course, if you're like most people who only keep their car for two or three years then do what you like - someone else will sort it out later, usually either a garage or someone who probably can't really afford to...

Feeling particularly cynical today, my apologies to all you cheerful people out there

Click to expand...

I keep my cars and bikes for a long time as well ( Alfa GTV-6 since 1988, Fiat Fiorino since 2001, and Fiat Palio since 2003, not to mention my motorbikes...) and I NEVER ever have used the factory recommended fluids, except the Paraflu coolant in the Palio....!
I use what's the best imo, and that's almost always something different from what the factory advices in the owners handbook.
Everytime my cars passes their annual MOT ( we call it APK) I get compliments the way they run smoothly, despite their high milages...!
So in the end I must be doing something good to them....right...??

The subject of oil (particularly as far as Nick is concerned) is a purely subjective point, and as stated in other posts I personally would happily use oils such as Mobil for most cars. Also - and this is from personal experience - I have seen the effect of using certain pattern parts and fluids over the long term.

Some of the plastic cooling system components in my old Sharan became very brittle and started developing leaks, some time after I changed the coolant for Halfords own. My wife's Hyundai would not run properly with a Halfords air filter in. The same hyundai suffered gearbox failure shortly after changing the ATF for a non-OEM make (oh OK, carplan).

A 1988 GTV6 produces 63BHP / litre, 157 lb/ft of torque and weighs 1210KG. My Croma produces 83BHP / litre, 295 lb/ft of torque, weighs 1650KG and has a variable geometry turbo. The powertrain in my car is under a lot more stress than yours, and more to the point I bet you change your oil more often than me too - even though I don't let my car get anywhere near the 'normal' service interval.

The usual reply to the failures I've encountered would be to say "well you must have done something wrong", to that I would point out that if I was that cack-handed then I wouldn't be able to do things like change timing belts, completely strip and rebuild motorbikes, maintain gas turbines etc etc.

Maybe I've been unlucky - maybe - but given how much turbos, gearboxes, engines and DPFs cost then it's worth spending an extra £30 a year or so to make them last as long as possible. I appreciate the point that there may be even better products / fluids / filters etc out there, and by all means experiment away, but I'll be sticking to Selenia (or Mobil) and Paraflu.

On another subject, I'd happily fit good quality aftermarket discs, pads, suspension and tyres on the basis that they don't cost much to replace if they turn out to be substandard.

There is no right or wrong, it's your car, do what you like...

This is all good stuff. Really.

We are beginning to flush out all sorts of views and experiences which IMHO is fantastic.

All oil/fuel manufacturers have had issues. I seem to recall that one (Shell ?) had big problems with Rover police cars sitting at idle on motorway bridges. Was soon sorted although for the private motorist the solution may have come too late. Needless to say the problem was very specific to the "strange/odd" police vehicle's engine operating cycle.

All done, using cheapo (but decent) antifreeze and posh water. I also used some Holts Radflush, which took ages and was pointless on a car so new - it came out clean. Reassuring though I guess.

The car is finally running well. Pretty much all of the issues with this car were due to the thermostat - noisy engine, heater not working, reluctant at low revs. I'm just annoyed I didn't work it out for myself.

By the way, the GM/Vauxhall part no for the thermostat is 55203388. Worth a search on ebay for - mine was £38-odd including delivery. The Vauxhall dealer wanted £50-odd, didn't ask the Fiat dealer.