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Old 03-06-2010   #31
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

If you refer to ePer via the FF (seems to be running good now) as a starting point then note, it may not show (?) the later issues of EGR & gaskets.

For example, for the 1.9/16v-150 I think it shows the 55194735 EGR. Im on (as far as I know) a third EGR unit the second 55204250 (35.6K mls) was replaced by a third 55215031 (47.6k mls) c/w the 55225287 gasket (4x 8mm or 9mm holes?).

The route I took was to check the unit on the car (55204250) but not easy, as I think I could only make out only some of the part number. Im not sure now how I found out that the 55204250 had been replaced by the 55215031 maybe from a later issue ePer(?). Anyway, I checked it with a dealer & asked for a cross-ref with the latest gasket mods. Some confusion then, as they said theyd not sold (or ever had) any of the new gaskets - & they had to refer back to FIAT (UK). Bought a Vauxhall 031 (received without gaskets) - & ordered FIAT gaskets (48 hrs).

Note: the above P/Nos are good for a 1.9/16v-150 that wont necessarily fit your 8v 120 or whatever.

References:
https://www.fiatforum.com/croma/229267-p0401-egr.html

YouTube- demontage EGR Alfa 147/GT/Fiat stilo jtd 16v
-------------
55 Croma II 1.9/16v 150
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Old 03-06-2010   #32
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Your EGR valve (according to ePer) is at the back of the engine, bolted to the rear of the inlet manifold i.e. item 7 in the picture. Your EGR valve is totally different to the 150 & 200 ones. The valve will be a long reach to get to because of its position - right in the middle of the rear of the engine bay. I personally believe it's worth a go as excessive EGR flow will help clog the DPF prematurely.

PS "HTH" stands for "Hope This Helps". I like being anonymous in these days of 'Big brother' - I am not a number etc etc etc.

HTH
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Old 07-06-2010   #33
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Hello again,
Thanks for posting the details on the EGR valve location.

Haven't quite managed to pluck up the courage to take it off yet but I did run ECUscan on it this morning and got the following results.

Engine off for about 24 hours - 4% open.
Switch engine on and rev to 1200 revs - 40% open
Rev to 1800 revs 50% open
Drive to work (10 miles mixed town and motorway driving) and at idle (900 revs) it was showing 4% open and behaving in much the same way as when it was cold.

Before I go to the trouble of taking it off would anyone know whether these results were normal?
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Old 07-06-2010   #34
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by BrianMcL View Post
Before I go to the trouble of taking it off would anyone know whether these results were normal?
The EGR valve is not linear and has no feedback signal. The ECU just tells the valve to open / close on an n% duty cycle. If the valve sticks then the only way the ECU can detect this is by the longer term monitoring of air flow and as EGR flow is also not directly measured the ECU has to conclude EGR flow by using airflow value and then applying an algorithm (engine speed plus probably other factors). This means that things get very approximate which is probably why EGR problems are so infuriating. Nothing is hard and fast.
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Old 07-06-2010   #35
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

I have my Croma for 6 months now, 10000 km.
When I just acquired my car I removed the EGR valve to clean it, it wasn't necessary because it was a new one.
The engine is a 8V 115 hp.
I took a graph with FIATEcuScan and found out that the EGR valve was open (I think 40%) almost all the time and only closed (4 %) during acceleration.
A few weeks ago I removed the valve once more for inspection but it was still clean.
Because the car sometimes hesitates at 2000 rpm I put a blanking plate.

The 16V 150 hp blanking plate is rectangular and has four 8 mm holes.
The 8V 115/120 hp plate is oval, I drilled five 6,5 mm holes in it.
The surface of 5 x 6,5 mm diameter is slightly larger then 4 x 8 mm.

The hesitation is completely gone but I can't tell the effect on consumption as I started using the AC the same time.
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Last edited by Crombel; 07-06-2010 at 16:36.
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Old 07-06-2010   #36
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by Crombel View Post
I have my Croma for 6 months now, 10000 km.
When I just acquired my car I removed the EGR valve to clean it, it wasn't necessary because it was a new one.
The engine is a 8V 115 hp.
I took a graph with FIATEcuScan and found out that the EGR valve was open (I think 40%) almost all the time and only closed (4 %) during acceleration.
A few weeks ago I removed the valve once more for inspection but it was still clean.
Because the car sometimes hesitates at 2000 rpm I put a blanking plate.

The 16V 150 hp blanking plate is rectangular and has four 8 mm holes.
The 8V 115/120 hp plate is oval, I drilled five 6,5 mm holes in it.
The surface of 5 x 6,5 mm diameter is slightly larger then 4 x 8 mm.

The hesitation is completely gone but I can't tell the effect on consumption as I started using the AC the same time.
Hi Crombel,
Thanks for the advice - as soon as I press the accelerator it jumps to 40% to 50%.

In your opinion would it be possible to make a blanking plate or would i have to buy one from somewhere?

I've made gaskets before but not for a long time.
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Old 07-06-2010   #37
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by Caravadossi View Post
If you refer to ePer via the FF (seems to be running good now) as a starting point – then note, it may not show (?) the later issues of EGR & gaskets.
The ePer via FF is an old version & you maybe risk ordering obsolete parts for your car.

Maybe (?) this will access a 2010 version ...

http://www.farel.it:7080/navi?SBMK=F...-1&WINDOW_ID=1

Edit: 2010/06/07 22:00
Hopefully it'll work & you'll hack-it - but if in difficulty, please advise. Note the spares catalog is the first on the menu (left) & you should be able to change brands & languages.

---------------------
55 Croma II 1.9/16v 150hp
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Last edited by Caravadossi; 07-06-2010 at 22:00. Reason: text +
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Old 08-06-2010   #38
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by BrianMcL View Post
In your opinion would it be possible to make a blanking plate or would i have to buy one from somewhere?
I made have it as it is my own design

I will make an illustration to make things clear.
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Old 08-06-2010   #39
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by Crombel View Post
I made have it as it is my own design

I will make an illustration to make things clear.
Hi Crombel,
That would be fantastic!

I know that blanking it off won't be a long term solution but it would be nice to confirm the problem is the EGR before spenfding any more money on diagnostics.

Would I need any gasket paper or instant gasket to join the plate on?

Thanks,
Brian
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Old 08-06-2010   #40
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
The EGR valve is not linear and has no feedback signal. The ECU just tells the valve to open / close on an n% duty cycle. If the valve sticks then the only way the ECU can detect this is by the longer term monitoring of air flow and as EGR flow is also not directly measured the ECU has to conclude EGR flow by using airflow value and then applying an algorithm (engine speed plus probably other factors). This means that things get very approximate which is probably why EGR problems are so infuriating. Nothing is hard and fast.

Hi s130,
As always these days things are never as simple as I seem to think

I'm going to try it with a blanking plate and see if that helps.

My thinking is that if I can isolate the problem, or at least the main problem, as the EGR valve, then I'd be less concerned about throwing more money at it and at least I'd know what to fix.

Fingers crossed!
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Old 08-06-2010   #41
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Just gone out and had another play around with ECUscan.

With the engine already warmed up at idle the EGR valve is 4% open. By 1000rpm it's 20% open. Between 1250 and 2250 rpm it swings between 40% and 55% open and by 2500rpm it's 4% open again.

At a junction if I rev it loads I can pull away fine.
Anything less and it can be terrifying.
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Old 08-06-2010   #42
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

This is how my blanking plate looks like:



As you can see, it was more difficult to draw then to make it (0,6 mm sheet metal)

I put it on the underside of the EGR-valve

It cured the "hesitation" but I don't know if it will help you with the DPF problems.
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Last edited by Crombel; 08-06-2010 at 21:49.
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Old 08-06-2010   #43
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Thanks Crombel.

I'll take care taking off the existing gasket and make one to your drawing.

I've got an offcut from a metal exhaust bandage that is about the correct thickness and fingers crossed it'll be good enough.

At this stage all I'm trying to do is to try and eliminate the various suspects - the dealer wanted over 500 to run tests to see what needed changing and I very much doubt they'd have come up with anything useful given their previous history with the car.

The DPF regenerates OK but throws the check engine and caps revs at 3k for a day or two while it builds up to it. I think this is an issue but might be different to the severe lack of low end power hopefully caused by the EGR. Or maybe even the dpf issue is caused by an EGR, or some other, fault and when I fix it the dpf issue may go away.

So far I had the dealer force regens, driven it until it does it itself, changed the air filter and unplugged the MAF and this made no difference.

The EGR seems the next logical thing to test / check.

Once again thank you.
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Old 08-06-2010   #44
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Sorry to bother you again Crombel but can I just ask whether the 5 circles in the middle are holes?
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Old 08-06-2010   #45
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Re: Croma DPF / Engine issue

Yes, five 6,5 mm holes.
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