Update on fuel consumption after remap;;; around town and short journeys 45.1 mpg. Long distance 70 to 80mph 51.4 mpg In both cases an improvement of 6 mpg. Hope this helps.
CJLAR
CJLAR
Tuning Installed a tuner on the 150!
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Tuning Installed a tuner on the 150!
Is this calculated from the pump input, rather than the on board computer averages?
I have only the onboard computer to go on as I did not do a brim to brim check before the remap. Not the best, I know, but the figures have remained consistently better since upgrade.Hope this helps.
Most remaps alter the fuel pulses and make the OBC mpg figures about 10% to 15% too high, where the original fuel pulses usually measure within about 2%. Brim to brim is the only valid measure, some people check the actual mileage by GPS.
Ok then, Brim to brim it is. Give me a week or so and I will post results.
Cjlar
Cjlar
THer have been some questions about why FIAT cap the output of this engine to 150BHP (especially when the same unit in the Cadillac BLS pumps out 180bhp). I looked into this as I was considering having mine chipped to 180 bhp but was advised strongly not to do it by a man in the know.
AS DoIDon'tI suggests, it is down to the transmission folks; it isn't designed to take anymore, especially the manuals - it seems the torque converter protects the autos from the worst of any power hike. As it is some people have had problems with CV joints failing prematurely in standard trim.
AS DoIDon'tI suggests, it is down to the transmission folks; it isn't designed to take anymore, especially the manuals - it seems the torque converter protects the autos from the worst of any power hike. As it is some people have had problems with CV joints failing prematurely in standard trim.
Well on the CV joint issue, me having been all through this as posted elsewhere, it would seem that the inner CV joints are naturally slack. given the design, a tripod assembly then I'm now fairly convinced that they (inner joints) will just get sloppier over time but will hopefully not outright fail and leave one with no drive. Famous last words.
As for the GM manual box I'm non the wiser. Has always been a little notchy/tight when cold but otherwise smooth under drive. However the power/over-run/power knock and 'clacking' sound is a real mystery other than supposedly being normal for this box.
I tow a caravan up into the Italian Dolomites every year so with 3K mile round trips for 3 years I do put the old Croma drivetrain under some duress.
I suppose the a modest lift in BHP and Torque would be tolerated by the Croma.
I'm also led to believe that it is the same gearbox fitted into the later Puntos (I'm assuming the 1.9 diesels and possibly the larger petrol models). Punto drivers seem to 'boost' their cars so there may be some relevant experience there as well.
As for the GM manual box I'm non the wiser. Has always been a little notchy/tight when cold but otherwise smooth under drive. However the power/over-run/power knock and 'clacking' sound is a real mystery other than supposedly being normal for this box.
I tow a caravan up into the Italian Dolomites every year so with 3K mile round trips for 3 years I do put the old Croma drivetrain under some duress.
I suppose the a modest lift in BHP and Torque would be tolerated by the Croma.
I'm also led to believe that it is the same gearbox fitted into the later Puntos (I'm assuming the 1.9 diesels and possibly the larger petrol models). Punto drivers seem to 'boost' their cars so there may be some relevant experience there as well.
All, Ok after a couple months with the tuner I have been able to obtain a average of about 410 miles on a full tank of fuel. I had not done a good check before installing the tuner.
To the main reason for the post. I was merging onto the motorway a week ago and when I accelerated hard in 3rd gear I noticed what sounded and felt like clutch slip. I let off a little and it went away. On my way home from work I tried a little test. From about 30-35 mph i floored it in third gear and again experienced what seemed to be clutch slip. So needless to say as soon as i noticed it for sure again I let off. Anyhow, I noticed through regular driving since then that when i accelerate hard it still seem to clutch slip some but it only seems to last maybe 1 or 2 seconds and then stops. As in whe i floor it the tach will jump up maybe 200 rpms for a second or two and then drop back down. So the question is...is it really clutch slip or is it a ECU thing? The other day I tired the old saleman clutch test in the driveway. Basically put the car in 4th sitting still and let the clutch out fairly slow. Essentially the car should try to move and the motor should bog. If it doesnt then the clutch is slipping. My car responded properly which again leads me to question if the clutch is actually slipping or is the ECU causing it. Last night I filled up the tank(got 416 miles on the last tank) and this morning I removed the programmer from the car. I will try the acceleration test again over the next few days and see what happens. I will post up what i find. Note the car has just pasted 50K miles on the clock.
To the main reason for the post. I was merging onto the motorway a week ago and when I accelerated hard in 3rd gear I noticed what sounded and felt like clutch slip. I let off a little and it went away. On my way home from work I tried a little test. From about 30-35 mph i floored it in third gear and again experienced what seemed to be clutch slip. So needless to say as soon as i noticed it for sure again I let off. Anyhow, I noticed through regular driving since then that when i accelerate hard it still seem to clutch slip some but it only seems to last maybe 1 or 2 seconds and then stops. As in whe i floor it the tach will jump up maybe 200 rpms for a second or two and then drop back down. So the question is...is it really clutch slip or is it a ECU thing? The other day I tired the old saleman clutch test in the driveway. Basically put the car in 4th sitting still and let the clutch out fairly slow. Essentially the car should try to move and the motor should bog. If it doesnt then the clutch is slipping. My car responded properly which again leads me to question if the clutch is actually slipping or is the ECU causing it. Last night I filled up the tank(got 416 miles on the last tank) and this morning I removed the programmer from the car. I will try the acceleration test again over the next few days and see what happens. I will post up what i find. Note the car has just pasted 50K miles on the clock.
DoIDon'tI
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With a manual gearbox car, revs rising without a corresponding increase in road speed = clutch slip. The ECU (or anything else for that matter) can't do this, it's a straight mechanical drive.
HTH.
Sounds like clutch slip. With full torque at perhaps 2000 rpm you are over stressing the transmission, unless you alter your driving style, and don't give it the full throttle until perhaps 3000 rpm. you can overload the clutch and gearbox, particularly in 5th and 6th. Might be OK in 4th. Also take care to synchronise engine to transmission speed when changing gear, so that you don't heat up the clutch.
Is the DPF regen OK?
I had an Alfa GT and considered the remap options. Plenty of info on Alfaowner.com
Is the DPF regen OK?
I had an Alfa GT and considered the remap options. Plenty of info on Alfaowner.com
Agreed, revs rising without a corresponding increase in road speed = Clutch slip. The questioning I have is could the computer sense the clutch slip situation and reduce power output?
Keithglos, As I mentioned in my previous post. I removed the tuner module, therefore removing the extra power causing the problem. I just drove to heathrow and back this morning and didnt notice any clutch slip. But I also cant say that I put alot of stress on it either. Time will tell,
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DoIDon'tI
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The only time the computer will intervene is when wheel slip/spin is detected, then the ASR is activated. If the ECU reduced power when clutch slip was detected then hill starts while towing could prove interesting...
If there's no chance that the car is spinning a wheel (unlikely in the circumstances you describe) then I'd suggest you start looking around for a replacement clutch - sorry. It might last weeks or months depending on how you drive but its remaining life is limited.
HTH.
This morning on the way to work I was merging onto the Motorway in the same situation I was noticing the clutch slip with the tuner. Today there was no noticable slip at WOT. The main thing that was noticable was...ughhhh it was alot slower!!! The tuner really woke the car up. Sucks to have to remove it. But im not trying to put in a new clutch any sooner than required!
OAN, Anyone bought Wiper Blades anywhere other than the dealer and also liked the performance? I have looked around online and only found a couple places to order them. Seem to be a pretty specific connector. I performed a search of the forums and didnt find much.
OAN, Anyone bought Wiper Blades anywhere other than the dealer and also liked the performance? I have looked around online and only found a couple places to order them. Seem to be a pretty specific connector. I performed a search of the forums and didnt find much.
Re: Installed a tuner on the 150...and then removed!!!
Quick Update...couple hundred miles without the tuner and the clutch seems fine...still no slippage that I can tell.
I have however noticed that the fuel mileage is reading as allot lower(worse) than what the car computer was reading with the tuner installed. With the tuner installed and easy driving I could keep the average consumption around 42. Now without the tuner on this tank (still easy driving) the average consumption is struggling to stay at the 37-38 range. I guess we will see how far I get on this tank. If it stays above 400 miles on a tank the consumption is still comparable. That will be the real story teller.
Also I notice that with the tuner I was easily able to change gears at about 2000 revs and the car would accelerate fine without added throttle. Now without the tuner a gear change at 2000 revs bogs and requires more throttle to accelerate. Essentially now I am forced to rev to 2200 or more before shifting. Which is also requiring me to make or use more turbo boost. My guess is that's where the mileage has gone?
BTW...guess no one knows anything about wipers?
Quick Update...couple hundred miles without the tuner and the clutch seems fine...still no slippage that I can tell.
I have however noticed that the fuel mileage is reading as allot lower(worse) than what the car computer was reading with the tuner installed. With the tuner installed and easy driving I could keep the average consumption around 42. Now without the tuner on this tank (still easy driving) the average consumption is struggling to stay at the 37-38 range. I guess we will see how far I get on this tank. If it stays above 400 miles on a tank the consumption is still comparable. That will be the real story teller.
Also I notice that with the tuner I was easily able to change gears at about 2000 revs and the car would accelerate fine without added throttle. Now without the tuner a gear change at 2000 revs bogs and requires more throttle to accelerate. Essentially now I am forced to rev to 2200 or more before shifting. Which is also requiring me to make or use more turbo boost. My guess is that's where the mileage has gone?
BTW...guess no one knows anything about wipers?
Re: Installed a tuner on the 150...and then removed!!!
Higher torque at 2000 rpm is your problem. It's up to the driver not to use the available power at the lower revs. FIAT have to protect the transmission from abuse.
Higher torque at 2000 rpm is your problem. It's up to the driver not to use the available power at the lower revs. FIAT have to protect the transmission from abuse.
DoIDon'tI
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Re: Installed a tuner on the 150...and then removed!!!
Just ordered two new Fiat ones for my car, I tried aftermarket ones but they juddered. Genuine blades are £25 the pair, given that you'll pay £20 for a half-decent aftermarket pair then it's worth the extra £5 IMHO.
HTH.
Just ordered two new Fiat ones for my car, I tried aftermarket ones but they juddered. Genuine blades are £25 the pair, given that you'll pay £20 for a half-decent aftermarket pair then it's worth the extra £5 IMHO.
HTH.
Agreed, with the programmer its making loads more power... interest ling though its able to make more power efficiently enough that if you are easy on it, it truly is more efficient. Seems so easy to me to just add a heavier clutch and let the motor make power. I mean really. How much more would a clutch with a little more clamping pressure cost the manufacture? Especially if it would allow Fiat to tune the motor up (for free, cause its a progrmaing change) and claim more power and better fuel economy? Seems like a no brainier.
There is not doubt in my mind if/when my clutch goes and im forced to replace it. I will upgrade to a stronger one and reinstall my programmer.
I know what your thinking...if i beat on it with hard shifts or clutch drops with a stronger clutch I will just break something else. And you would probably be right....i would break a synchroniser, a cv joint, tranny gear, input shaft etc... but reality is im not driving it like that nor will I ever and I dont think very many "Fiat Croma" owners do drive like that. Its just not the car for that kind of audience.
Thoughts?
John
There is not doubt in my mind if/when my clutch goes and im forced to replace it. I will upgrade to a stronger one and reinstall my programmer.
I know what your thinking...if i beat on it with hard shifts or clutch drops with a stronger clutch I will just break something else. And you would probably be right....i would break a synchroniser, a cv joint, tranny gear, input shaft etc... but reality is im not driving it like that nor will I ever and I dont think very many "Fiat Croma" owners do drive like that. Its just not the car for that kind of audience.
Thoughts?
John
My previous car was an Alfa GTJTDM, so plenty of info on the remaps, dual mass flywheel, stronger clutch, 5/6th gear trouble. The flywheel is about £400, and acts as a shock absorber in the diesel. I agree we are less enthusiastic than the average Alfa driver, but you can cope with the extra power if you know how and when to use it.
DoIDon'tI
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Not much, then they'd upgrade the flywheel, then the CV joints, then the gearbox, then the engine mounts, then the brakes, then the tyres, then the suspension, then....etc.
Most cars are designed with a set of parameters and load ratings for their components, starting with the engine then cascading down the drivetrain. Upgrading one component in isolation often affects others e.g. fitting wider / low profile tyres increases wear on suspension joints and bushes.
You are correct in your assertation, cars are built to a price and the manufacturers make sure the car will last for about seven years doing what it's designed to do - the problem with this is when an owner makes the car do something it's not designed to do, such as increasing power or towing a heavy load at high speed over long distances.
Most cars simply don't have the spare capacity to perform over and above their normal task, and the ones that can are invariably at the 'premium' end of the market (and no, I don't include Audi in that group). Fiat small cars generally fare better because they are lighter, they're not used for towing and performance gains are usually much smaller.
Every extra HP or NM produced has a cost somewhere down the line - it's just a matter of what gives up first. The car in its standard trim is fulfilling its design, if you want more power & torque then you either get a different car or accept that drivetrain components will have a shorter life.
I'm not having a pop at anyone, so please don't take any of the above personally, I'm simply drawing on my thirty years of vehicle / aircraft engineering experience. Ten years ago, a Fiat Brava had a 1.9JTD engine putting out 105BHP in a car that weighed 1195Kg. A Croma 1.9JTD puts out 150BHP in a car weighing 1530KG. More is being asked of drivetrain components than ever before.
With modern design techniques, you can be sure that every component in the drivetrain is 'fit for purpose' and nothing more - and its life will be limited...
HTH.
