Well I'm learning a little about this but still have a way to go.

Much of the car data with regards to customer settings, service information, customisation etc. is stored in the Body Computer.

The instrument panal is the master (as far as I can tell) with regards to Service Intervals. It support 9 service intervals. After the 9th service scheduled services are no longer warned/displayed. Service data from the dash is stored in the body computer...as is other info. If you have new replacement components fitted to the car, such a a new instument panel, then there is a "proximation" routine via the Fiat Examiner that transfers "stored" data back to the various car nodes (the dash board computer is a node. There are others).

With regards to Service interval the Service Counter will prompt periodically to the due service date/mileage. It will continue to prompt to 1000km/miles and then shut up.

To turn off normal service warnings a technician can just clock 9 services in succession. Note! All 9 service interval data is recorded in the dash panel (and body computer).

The oil change warning is a little different. I think this is based on the number of times the DPF filter has recycled/regenerated itself. General Motors use a "GMOLS" algorithm (I think that is what it is called). For Fiat Croma I don't know.

Service and Oil Change resets are CAN based functions. There are a number of Service and Oil Reset tools out there. One CAN based generic model is the UIFTECH model SI605 (http://www.uiftech.com/productInfo.jsp?producttypeid=14&ProID=107&intPage=1)

I have no idea as to if this works with a Croma. When I am out of warranty then, assuming no other info comes to light, I will write to UIFTECH and even make a speculative purchase to see if it works on a Croma.

Nick /////

The link to GMOLS seems to be a realistic one, trouble is the USA owners of GM vehicles have the option of resetting their own warnings. I plan to keep my car for quite a few years and change my own oil (the last time it was done by a dealer they chiselled the sump plug, hammered an Allen bit in then overtightened it, then didn't fill it with Selenia - big difference in refinement since I changed the oil ).

Anyway - as I don't much fancy getting the car to a dealer (my nearest one is a fair distance away and I don't like giving up my Saturdays) then paying £40 or so for someone to plug in a cable then press a button - I would like to be able to reset my Oil Change warning myself and if anyone finds a way to do this I would be very grateful - I hate seeing my oil pressure light flashing...

I gather then you have been driving with the oil light flashing then. For how long and have you noticed any performance issues?
Nick/////

The oil warning first came on about 1500 miles ago, I changed the oil and filter about 200 mileas after that so about 1300 miles in total. As an aside, changing the oil to Selenia WR has made a noticeable difference to the running - there were two problems with the car before I changed the oil and they have both disappeared. The first one was what I would describe as a 'hiccup' when accelerating through 50-55 mph before the car was fully warmed up. The other was a 'surging' sensation when accelerating moderately hard, independent of engine temperature.

The only thing I did to the car was change the oil and filter so I can only conclude the oil was of a less than optimum grade, I've personally never had this problem before in my ownership of 35+ cars of various makes so it seems a little odd. Having said that, the car doesn't like fuel from Total stations either so perhaps it's a little fussy!

The oil warning / flashing light are more of a nuisance / distraction as they only last for a minute, as far as I am aware there is no other effect. Given the lack of care exercised by the main dealers when servicing the car before I got it (Sump plug as mentioned, both engine covers mountings broken) I would rather not trust a dealer with my car if I don't have to.

No doubt the techs on here may feel offended but it's usually not the techs that do the damage, it's the trainee who has been given the mundane / repetitive job. It's not only Fiat who suffer from this - my wife's hyundai was given back to us with the sump plug finger tight, missing air filter bolts and a pierced brake fluid gauze, and my father-in-law's Scenic was returned with the breather hose disconnected.

We can rage all we like but in my case all I want to do is make sure the job is done to my satisfaction i.e. do it myself - trouble is Fiat won't let me :bang:

I live in hope that someone will come up with a solution (even a way to reset the main computer if that clears the memory) - the problem with the tool you're interested in is that it works on 4 or 6 cylinder engines, not my five cylinder truck lump...

Well I'm hoping with the Croma (2005) we are just on the lucky side for a change.

After a Service warning + 1000km/miles it is supposed to shut up. If as you safe the flashing oil light is only annoying but appears to have no other side effects then this is good news.

I have heard of engine management systems going into reduced "stress" modes to protect themselves from "calculated" poor oil quality. Reduced stress = reduced performance / limp mode.

Who knows? I doubt even the Fiat techs here know the answer to the question unless they have specifically asked or been advised by Fiat UK.

Nick /////

Well the 0-60 seemed to be as good as ever on the way home tonight

Fingers crossed that some clever soul does the rest of us a favour and finds two pins to short out or something similar to clear the warning...something makes me think it won't be that simple though

If I find anything out I'll post it on here somewhere.

Nick
Could there be a simple way to turn off the Oil Change light? I had a Volvo and to turn off the Service Needed light you held the mileage trip button in Then turned on the ign and after some flashing the light went out. Could this be too simple for the Italians?
Granvilleb

Yes you do have a problem if you do not have the oil change reset. (Yes I am a tech, and yes I do know about it). DPF regenerations do not operate correctly if the oil change is not reset as oil degradation indicated by the engine ecu, means it would be dangerous to the engine to carry out regenerations. Diesel particulate filter blocks up and after a while the engine ecu reduces power and indicates a fault. Dealer cannot carry out forced regeneration as the DPF is so badly blocked it cannot be regenerated. Result you need a new filter, (£1200). We are doing one on a doblo for this problem, so I speak from experience.

Hi NumanR

If I read your post correctly once the oil light has come on, then after a period of time the ECU/body computer dictates that the oil is not of sufficient quality to be stressed by the DPF regeneration process where up to 5 five additional fuel injections per cycle are injected to increase exhaust temperatures in the DFP to over 600deg.C

Am I right?

Whilst I have your spanner

Please can you provide any info regarding resetting of the Oil Service Counter/Light with the examiner?

Is it a simple resest based on model, i.e. you cannot set a mileage or time duration? Is it purely based on DPF recycles with a recommended 18K interval.

Besides general knowledge I ask because my last service was screwed by the dealer in that they did not (initially) reset the service interval. This was corrected immediately with the technician saying they had been having problems with the Examiner not doing what it was told. Subsequenlty the service manager, after a number of other issues, ordered a full reservice by another technician. I know the service counter was not reset as that would decrement the 9 service count but I have no idea what happened to the oil change count. (As I tow a caravan I had the full 18K service carried out at 12K miles). I'm now at 18900 wondering if the oil light is soon to come on.

Thanks

Nick /////

I think I wish you were right Seems that just about every other manufacturer, excluding Fiat Camper Vans, have a convoluted was of pushing this, pressing that, turning this and etc. etc. in a given sequence to reset something.

I think that models Stilo onwards .... are a little more restricted in what can be achieved by "hacks".

I live in hope.

All these "controls" I basically agree with as safety, polution, etc. are important. However I detest my car being serviced (or so they say) and screwed by numpties at my expense. Before any Fiat techs climb on my back I do know there are plenty of you "better" guys out there. Trouble is finding you. I also set my standards very high. So much so many don't like me. As I've said before many of you are limited/rated against set/impossible times. However I've seen and experience incompitance on so many occassions, regardless of any set set/quota by the dealer.

Such is life...................

No problem Nick, there are plenty of idiot owners out there as well.
Regarding service periods and oil change periods, any vehicle we get in with dpf, is quoted for the service and a seperate quote for oil and filter change. When we service the vehicle we check the oil depreciation reading in the engine ecu, its based on this information that we advise if an oil change is required. We generally advise if the oil counter is below 3000 miles to have the oil change done purely due for convenience to the customer, but they are always given the option.
All this info is only available on Examiner.

Well I'm very confused now - the oil in my car was changed 2500 miles ago but the DPF has regenerated more than once in that time, in fact it did so on the way home tonight - I got caught in a tailback on the way to an airport (70 mile journey) and did lots of idle / slow speed driving (which usually causes the DPF to clog up) then on the way back the traffic was better and the car did the usual 'strange accelerator / high fuel consumption / using fuel on the overrun for ten minutes or so' thing that it does when it's regenerating.

I'm not out to cause trouble, I'd just like to know the score really. Also, on this subject, am I correct in thinking that you can't just reset the warning out of sync with the oil change because that causes problems? This whole warning light thing is descending into farce, I am doing 25K miles a year and will be losing a few saturday mornings if I have to go in every time I need the light reset.

One last question for the experts out there - if the ECU knows how degraded the oil is, then when you change the oil the degradation will be less. If the ECU senses this then will it still allow regenerations?

Oil degradion can not be measured, except under laboritory conditions/methods. So instead a method/algorithm has to be created. This alogorith will (possibly) include total mileage thus far, mileage/time car is driven at over x% engine loading or throttle position, number of this, number of thats recorded in the ECU.

Vauxhall use a GMOLS algorith I believe. Fiat use (I think) and algorith based on miles thus far and number of DPF regenerations undertaken. Push the engine hard and the particualtes are higher. The higher the particulate count the more the filter becomes clogged and thus a higher pressure differential across the filter. This can be measured.

What the actual algorithm Fiat use is I believe unknown to all but Fiat producxt design and possibly Fiat technical support staff.

The Fiat delear techs probalby know soem rough basics of the alogorithm but are guided in the end by what the Examiner reports.

Bummer I know. Hopefully overtime more info will appear that helps us. Untill such time we may just have to wait till a company produces a tools to reset the Oil Service Counter. They will have paid Fiat a sum of money for the information and will thus guard the info carefully as otherwise their sales will be affected.

Nick /////

I've decided to play safe and the car's booked in to get the light reset. I can't tell any difference in performance and am fairly confident that the car is still regenerating but can't afford to take any chances as we go to France in it next month. Roll on the home reset kit, £40 a throw just to reset a light/warning soon adds up with the miles I do and the length of time I plan to keep the car.

'Licence to print money' springs to mind...when we change my wife's car in a couple of years we will definitely not be getting a Fiat diesel for her if this is their policy. If I'd realised about the oil light/warning situation I'd have gone with my other choice (Galaxy TDI) as this issue will add at least £400 to my running costs over the time I have the car! It's especially galling as I will be changing the oil more often than recommended by the car - I firmly believe it's one of the most influential factors in prolonging engine, DPF and turbo life.

:bang:

£40 sounds rather steep to me. My local independent, ex Fiat DTEC charges £10 for a service and/or oil reset. It takes no more than 15 minutes to collect car from pound/customer parking bay, drive into workshop, fire-up examiner, plug-in, reset and return car to parking.

At £40 this would be £160 per hour labour charge. NOT justifiable.

HAGGLE and say you will go eslewhere AND refer them to Fiat and Trading Standards.

They have to be able to justify their real costs. Not loss of income because you/someone else serivced the car and they are trying to recoupe a loss they never made.

£10 to £15 + VAT is a fair charge. Not even Porshe/Ferarri charge £160+vat per hour.

Nick /////

I dont disagree, the whole situation is awkward for the dealers as well as its difficult to quote correctly for what exactly is required. Personally I dont like 18K intervals, I prefer 12k but personally change my engine oil every 6 to 9k. But thats because I am obviously not paying labour. The oil degradation is worked out indeed as Nick says within the engine ecu, but some vehicles have gone 25000 miles without an oil change, (way to far in my view) this is why you need the wide range oil recommended by Fiat, anything else may not be able to protect for that long. By the way I use Wide Range in my car even doing reduced mileage oil changes, i think its that good.

///// said:

ex Fiat DTEC

Click to expand...

whats that?

///// said:

HAGGLE and say you will go eslewhere AND refer them to Fiat and Trading Standards.

Click to expand...

They have to be able to justify their real costs. Not loss of income because you/someone else serivced the car and they are trying to recoupe a loss they never made. [/QUOTE]

most places charge £20max never seen anyone charging more however some do have a set fee which is normally a hour (£40-50) but this is at managers discretion.

end of the day diag equipment/software/licence etc costs a dealer a huge amount of money so as a business they have to recoup this outlay. British telecom charge £110 call out fee, Scottish gas charge £70 call out fee both without actually doing anything is that fair or should I report them to trading standards And dont get me started on the council tax

I appreciate your point, however Fiat dealers are so far apart in this neck of the woods that any saving made by shopping around is negated by the cost of travelling further afield. And that's yet another reason to question the wisdom of buying a Fiat...if you have a good garage/dealer near you then rejoice, that's all I can say. The half hour labour quoted (£39.66) is probably to allow time for the staff to read up on where to find the OBD port on a Croma and a refresher on how to use Examiner (it's a multi-franchise dealer)...:shakehead:

All I can say is that next time this situation arises I will plan ahead a bit more and tie it in with a journey to somewhere near another dealer who charges less. Something else to bear in mind is that most car manufacturers aren't exactly selling massive volumes at the minute so may add a little on to the garage charges to even things out. Me? Cynical? Never. :chin:

Agree wholeheartedly with NumanR on the oil issue, Selenia WR is the only oil I will use and the most it will ever go between changes is 10K. I don't pay labour either, after twenty years of working on aircraft engines I'm happy to attempt the odd oil change...

If the dealer does a good job and I get good service (Coffee and biscuits) then I won't mind too much - the question is whether that will happen. Sweepstake anyone? :devil:

DoIDon'tI said:

Fiat dealers are so far apart in this neck of the woods that any saving made by shopping around is negated by the cost of travelling further afield. And that's yet another reason to question the wisdom of buying a Fiat...if you have a good garage/dealer near you then rejoice, that's all I can say. The half hour labour quoted (£39.66) is probably to allow time for the staff to read up on where to find the OBD port on a Croma and a refresher on how to use Examiner (it's a multi-franchise dealer)...:shakehead:

All I can say is that next time this situation arises I will plan ahead a bit more and tie it in with a journey to somewhere near another dealer who charges less.

Click to expand...

Maybe you should consider buying a Ford, loads of dealers.

DoIDon'tI said:

Something else to bear in mind is that most car manufacturers aren't exactly selling massive volumes at the minute so may add a little on to the garage charges to even things out. Me? Cynical? Never. :chin:

Click to expand...

I have found it to be the opposite.

My last car was a Ford - well, a VW Sharan built in the same Portuguese factory with the same Spanish made parts. I got most of my parts from Ford garages and found them to be helpful and generally was happy with both service and costs. I also spent far too much time there due to very poor build quality and inherent design faults, so was hoping that the Croma would not have the same affinity for dealerships.

I appreciate that as a Mod (and probably someone who is involved with some kind of dealership) that you have a position to uphold and a party line to follow. Having recently been in four dealerships (Fiat/Vauxhall/Hyundai/VW) I noticed the lack of customers. A common factor was that the service desk in each one was ringing round people, trying to drum up business.

My observation on workshop pricing was not an entirely serious one, hence the chin-rubbing smiley - I am fully aware that businesses can often be marginalised and even run at a loss in difficult times (such as the current economic climate). Perhaps it would be more constructive to ponder why there aren't more Fiat dealers, and what could be done to address the issue?

I grew up with Fiats, have owned a few up to this point (128, Uno x2, Tipo) and am generally happy with the Croma - it's just frustrating to have so little support from the people who made it then getting patronised by "insiders" on an internet forum whilst trying to exchange views and opinions. It's even more galling when so many people who look round the Croma realise what a good vehicle it is - what a missed opportunity.

Taken from the launch of the new 500 back in January:-

'Fiat UK’s recently appointed managing director Andrew Humberston said this week that the arrival of the Fiat 500 in the UK is the best chance the company has to secure its future. He thinks it is the car that could do the most for the business and its 170 dealers and their customers.


He said last night at a media launch event in London, “It is very clear we haven’t necessarily done things very well in the past and there is lots of room for improvement, and with the launch of the 500 it is the best opportunity we will have for the future.”

“The UK market is one of the most sophisticated in the world but there are areas where Fiat could introduce best practice and look at the basics, right down to the dealer level. We must also work very closely with the dealerships because this is where we can make big strides in the years to come,” he added.

Humberston said he would be visiting the dealer network over the next few weeks to see them working at ‘street level’. This would help him formulate his ideas for the future because he intended to remain head of Fiat Auto UK for many years.'

I don't see anything in that speech about encouraging Fiat customers to spend their money on other makes..?