After spending all afternoon watching the sei being mapped thats about 5 hours, i have the results of the session.
It made 108 bhp and 100lbft,(at the flywheel) this is excellent considering we haven't touched the inside of the engine at all its completely stock. The only things we have changed is the manifold, induction and ignition leads.
I'm pleased with the results and its drives fantastically, for the first conversion in the UK its not bad at all.
Just think what could be done when we decide to do head work and maybe change the cams and a few other things
Chris said himself that this little engine has alot of potential, it will be improved on in due course no doubt but for now i'm happy

I have a video which i will try and add soon, not done before so may take a while lol.

Anyway photo's ...................





emma.

Great new well sort off, you have bepsoke management, CDA, leads and full custom exhaust and it has gained 8bhp?

Don't mean to sound scathing but I would be a bit naffed off.

Feel free to put me straight if this was the intended path however.

Those feelings aside, N/A reliability is a bonus and 108 isn't too shabby in the confines of a car that size.

Liam

as evo says, they wanted it to be a minter with an engine that is as reliable and smooth/drivable as a new car.

I think the engine had like 8k or 11k on it when they pulled it (not even enough to have had its first service ).


108bhp (minus what 7% drivetrain loss), is very very convincing in a sei, I mean 75bhp (minus about 10-12% for my old g'box, and then another 15% for the engine having done 90k!!! ) in my punto 5spd is enough to pull redline in each gear convincingly and pulls no matter what.

so an extra 40odd ponies, and 50lb's of torque in something that weighs at least 120kg's less in the first place,
NICE

I've also found driving high powered FWD with far better cornering capabailites than my humble punto are fine, when the road is wide, smooth and even. but you try driving quickly in somehting that generates ~240bhp at the FRONT wheels, you very quickly find the hedge, then add a rough chattered up road, and said knackered punto will be all over your arse.


go forth emma, and enjoy it!!! Its my fav sei on the forum (yeah I like the turbo ones, but their all falling apart!!!).

and the tb

hows it compare to the turbo?

is that aimed at me??

what does TB mean, turbobrick (the rally slag, the red turbo or the rotton 244??) or throttle body directed at aaron??

Liam said:

Great new well sort off, you have bepsoke management, CDA, leads and full custom exhaust and it has gained 8bhp?

Don't mean to sound scathing but I would be a bit naffed off.

Feel free to put me straight if this was the intended path however.

Those feelings aside, N/A reliability is a bonus and 108 isn't too shabby in the confines of a car that size.

Liam

Click to expand...

meant and TB at that bit

Its double the power of a standard sporting, so will still shock people on the road, the engine started off with 95bhp so has actually gained 13bhp.
If you look at it this way a high boost turbo conversion gave you 104bhp but it would have cost you £2900 ish if it were still available that is.
A low boost 1.2 conversion gave you 95bhp would of cost around £1500 plus the engine.
I've spend about £1000 and got a car that has reliability and 108bhp with 6 speed gearbox which is great for economy and at least 10-15 mpg more than turbo cinqs do.

My turbo feels quicker it has to be said,(maybe thats the boost factor) but the sei is excellent its still fun to drive and as faster4_tec said the engine has only covered 8k so maybe with some daily driving running in maybe it will improve. But hey what do i know .

looks great and 108 bhp is fantastic! I was expecting more tbh, but i bet it goes great anyway!

Did you have a triple map done or just one map?

How did you spend only about £1k though must have got some good bargains out there I spent more than that, mine isn't even finished, and not as good lol. I'd have thought the engine managment and mapping alone would be over that budget?

Also now you have 108, your going to need another new badge :slayer:

Kristian

kritip said:

looks great and 108 bhp is fantastic! I was expecting more tbh, but i bet it goes great anyway!

Did you have a triple map done or just one map?

How did you spend only about £1k though must have got some good bargains out there I spent more than that, mine isn't even finished, and not as good lol. I'd have thought the engine managment and mapping alone would be over that budget?

Also now you have 108, your going to need another new badge :slayer:

Kristian

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Just had the one map done, it takes hours to get the fueling just right.

Lets just say the ECU was half what i've spent and engine was an absolute bargain To be honest i haven't totted up exactly what I've spent but i have had quite a few discounts from GPR the company i work for (Dread) has a contract with them
I've defiantly spent less on this project than restoring the turbo.

emma.

so the 6spd is off a mk2 punto or stilo then

mk1 punto/cinq 6spd boxs are actually lower geared than 5spds (see my ridiculously long thread about it last eyar), basically the 6th on a 6spder (from a mk1 punto/cinq) is near enough the same rpm/mph as 4th is on a 5speder!!!

mk2's though are th proper way round, and feel more like a g'box rather than the 5spd 'bent spanner in a bag of spanners with some kind of grease in there' LOL

I think 108 is good and -- this is the important thing -- a pretty realistic figure. That dyno isn't run by some Essex boy trying to please customers.

I'd expect it to give another 5/10 brake or so when it has been thrashed for a few thousand miles, which will put it in high boost turbo country. Except it should keep on trucking for another 100,000 miles with little more than routine maintenance. And there's some more to come from head work, etc.

It'll be the way the boost comes in -- and the way that the torque peaks early -- that makes the turbo car seem faster: it almost certainly is, too, although that's not what you necessarily want from a daily driver!

Lovely car!

fingers99 said:

I think 108 is good and -- this is the important thing -- a pretty realistic figure. That dyno isn't run by some Essex boy trying to please customers.

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Very valid point also i forgot it was the 95 bhp varient not the 100hp engine (not sure what difference there is mind)

But either way, i did forget to say im glad to see its all running :slayer:

foxyemx said:

Its double the power of a standard sporting, so will still shock people on the road, the engine started off with 95bhp so has actually gained 13bhp.
If you look at it this way a high boost turbo conversion gave you 104bhp but it would have cost you £2900 ish if it were still available that is.
A low boost 1.2 conversion gave you 95bhp would of cost around £1500 plus the engine.
I've spend about £1000 and got a car that has reliability and 108bhp with 6 speed gearbox which is great for economy and at least 10-15 mpg more than turbo cinqs do.

My turbo feels quicker it has to be said,(maybe thats the boost factor) but the sei is excellent its still fun to drive and as faster4_tec said the engine has only covered 8k so maybe with some daily driving running in maybe it will improve. But hey what do i know .

Click to expand...

If i gave you £1500 could you put me one of them in my Cinq ? :yum:

Truly awesome, awesome car.

I wasn't there yesterday, but think it's an excellent result. It is fair to say a car that started life with 54bhp and 60lb ft & going to a genuine (some r/r are to be fair very generous in there results, even pumping up front tyres by 10psi can gain 10-15bhp ) 108bhp and 100lb ft for a spend of half what it cost to develop the turbo Cinq properly is great going, I can't wait to drive it now its mapped.

Yes the engine started life as Emma correctly stated as 95bhp 94lb ft so it has actually had an increase of 13bhp or in other words 14% which for an induction kit, manifold and TB and proper mapping is a good & realistic result.

A standalone ECU will not give massive gains what it is really for is to run the engine correctly which it does and of course the benefit is now that if anyone now wants to run a 16V FIRE engine on Emerald there is a map for it as this was first Fiat FIRE engine to run Emerald. Remember even the Panda 100hp as dyno tested is actually 97 or 98bhp which can be accounted to a slighlty more aggresive map, its not a true 100bhp car.

Therefore if you think a Panda 100hp is 975kgs without extras, so most road car will tip scales at 1000kgs+ and this car as weighed by garage just tips scales at 800kgs you get an idea of how quick the car will be with a much better power to weight ratio.

There was a question about gearbox, it is lock stock and barrell lifted with the engine from a Stilo 1.4 16V so has benefit of higher final drive, which was really needed in this car as MPi Seicento Abarths have a lower final drive to compensate for the 14" wheels. For the Stilo they state roughly 40mpg and that weighs 1100kgs, so in this 40-50mpg should be eaily achievable.

We expect that with som emore miles on the engine it will lossen up and give away some more power and now that the car is set up then this as a base is a higher starting point than coudl be achieved with any other availble FIRE engine, it's not inperceivable that with head work cams and a bit more development work on throttle body and further mapping that the magic 100bhp per litre could be achieved.

The one benefit of this car over the turbo converted cars is that you don't get the swell of torque which can as turbo owners will know actaully slow you down if you try and exit corners quickly as the torque overwhelms the inside wheel spinning it up and understeering badly, so it could turn out to be quicker on track/cross country as it much easier to balance the throttle and actullay get the availble power down, yes in straight line the hi-boost turbo's may still have the legs but there will not much in it.

what will the new rev limit be?? 6200 or 7500:yum:


7k on a 16v fire = mmmmmm revvy, the induction noise is quite noticable even std.


reasons to have a supercharger (and a turbo, forget that bit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-GZGPE0zeA

completly out of context and not what your looking for, but still, wouldn't get bored of anything like that noise :worship:

Good effort with the project.

Power not bad, like you say should loosen up as mine is still doing after a few thousand miles.

I hope to be making more power with mine, but we shall see, and if people moan about the rolling roads I use i'll do a compare run at the same roling road to keep everyone happy.

JR said:

Good effort with the project.

Power not bad, like you say should loosen up as mine is still doing after a few thousand miles.

I hope to be making more power with mine, but we shall see, and if people moan about the rolling roads I use i'll do a compare run at the same roling road to keep everyone happy.

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I don't think it's that people moan, but some r/r's results are very unrealistic, even the printouts themselves look off.

This car made at the wheels 97bhp, thats an awsome result, even at just 3000rpm it was making 60bhp which is more than it made as a standard 1.1 at peak, so shows how flexible the engine will be and reward the car with an effortless driving stlye that a big engine in small car affords.

To get a true flywheel power for a FWD you take at wheel power then add 10 then divide by 0.9.

Theres a full and comprehensive article on it here http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/coastdwn.htm

Aaron.

Glad to see it all up and running! and yea, the engine will go round the clock a few times i'm sure :slayer:

next project? ...

Good work guys there is just no substitute for capacity so it should be nice and effortless as an every day drive.

You forgot to mention that there is also the custom exhaust and free flow cat that will also have helped a little to get the power gain

I can't see this being the last one to grace the streets of the UK now that it is proven

Now as Custard would say where is the guide

J333EVO said:

Yes the engine started life as Emma correctly stated as 95bhp 94lb ft so it has actually had an increase of 13bhp or in other words 14% which for an induction kit, manifold and TB and proper mapping is a good & realistic result.

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how refreshingly realistic